In this episode, Kirsten and Bey talk to the VP of Communication for Grindr, Patrick Lenihan. Patrick shares how Grindr became a popular hub for gay people to meet, chat, and hook up. Later in the episode, Dr. Jayatri Das is back with her findings on hook-up culture in today’s world.
Links for this episode:
- Learn more about Grindr
- Learn more about Dr. Jayatri Das
- Read a transcript of this episode
Transcript
Hello and welcome to So Curious, presented by the Franklin Institute.
Speaker:We are your hosts.
Speaker:I am an incredible rapper named The Bul Bey!
Speaker:And I am a mind-blowing stand-up comic!
Speaker:I'm Kirsten Michelle Cills.
Speaker:On this season of So Curious!, we are
Speaker:talking all about the science behind love, sex, and relationships.
Speaker:Everything from your brain on love, to why
Speaker:we obsess over our favorite television characters, to how science and tech are
Speaker:changing our relationships with each other.
Speaker:For this episode, we are going to be talking with the VP of Grindr, Patrick
Speaker:Lenihan, and we're going to be discussing the popular gay dating app.
Speaker:And later, we are joined by the chief
Speaker:bioscientist of the Franklin Institute, Dr.
Speaker:Jayatri Das, to get some insight into the role science
Speaker:plays in the behaviors and social norms around hookup culture.
Speaker:Bey, I'm going to be honest with you.
Speaker:I am so stoked to talk to our first guest.
Speaker:Something that I know about Grindr is that it's less of an algorithm and it's more
Speaker:proximity-based, which is, like, pretty ahead of its time.
Speaker:So with Tinder, there's more of this
Speaker:complicated algorithm, but Grindr is all about proximity.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So Grindr presents you with options based on who is closest to you physically.
Speaker:Literally, down to the 100-foot measurement.
Speaker:And the cool thing about Grindr is it was so revolutionary, because it was the first
Speaker:platform to really build community for gay people in your area.
Speaker:Have you ever been to New York's Pride? I haven't.
Speaker:As a gay myself [laughs], Pride rocks!
Speaker:You can't walk more than 100 feet without running into Grindr merch.
Speaker:It is everywhere. They are, like, the kings of this.
Speaker:And they really found a way to bring together communities, especially in areas
Speaker:where it might not be as okay to be outwardly gay, maybe in different parts of
Speaker:the country, different parts of the world, to still be able to find each other.
Speaker:Yeah. Which is very cool.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Not every town in rural America is going to have a gay bar.
Speaker:Right. Or just interests, right?
Speaker:Interests that kind of intersect in these
Speaker:particular communities and pockets of places.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:How are you supposed to meet your fellow gay people if there's no drag brunch?
Speaker:Yeah, right.
Speaker:That's where I've met all my closest friends.
Speaker:Mimosas...!
Speaker:Well, this is a great time to introduce
Speaker:our first guest, who knows more about Grindr than most people.
Speaker:Patrick Lenahan is vice president and head of communications at Grindr, the world's
Speaker:largest social networking app for gay, bi, trans and queer people.
Speaker:As Grindr's chief spokesperson, Patrick
Speaker:represents the company to media investors and the broader LGBTQ+ community.
Speaker:Thank you so much for being here, Patrick.
Speaker:Welcome to the So Curious! Podcast.
Speaker:Can you tell us more about your history, the history of Grindr, how revolutionary
Speaker:it has been for the gay community and beyond?
Speaker:I came out as a gay man 20 years ago.
Speaker:When I came out -- and I think that a lot of people have this experience -- even
Speaker:though I lived in northern suburban New Jersey, which is relatively cosmopolitan,
Speaker:and you can sort of like, see Manhattan from certain points in town, you still
Speaker:have this impression that you're the only gay person in the world.
Speaker:And that has been, I think, a prevailing
Speaker:experience for a lot of queer people throughout history: not knowing whether or
Speaker:not there are people like them, and not being able to find one another.
Speaker:That sense of isolation is incredibly heavy and tough to carry.
Speaker:And that's what queer community has been,
Speaker:is people coming together around these commonalities.
Speaker:Grindr was invented in 2009, relatively soon after the launch of the iPhone.
Speaker:This was, like, an early, first-generation app when apps were the sexiest new thing.
Speaker:"There's an app for that."
Speaker:Right! Those sorts of commercials! And it was invented by this guy, Joel Simkhai in
Speaker:Los Angeles, who was like, "I want to find my people, I want to find gay people.
Speaker:And it's got to be easier than looking around and guessing." And so
Speaker:he developed this really, really simple technology, and it's just
Speaker:people who create profiles, and seeing those people in proximity.
Speaker:If you download Grindr today,
Speaker:it's not really dissimilar from what you would have seen in 2009.
Speaker:You see, upon creating an account, the
Speaker:first 100 people who are closest to you, who are also on the app.
Speaker:And you see the information about those
Speaker:people that they choose to share with you, a profile photo, their gender, their age,
Speaker:what they're into and interests, whether or not they want to share photos, whether
Speaker:or not they want to meet up, things like that.
Speaker:And you can see whether they're online,
Speaker:and you can chat with anybody who's sort of in your area.
Speaker:And then there's a variety of feature sets
Speaker:that are sort of behind some paywalls and that expand your reach and your ability to
Speaker:talk to other people to 600, or unlimited....
Speaker:We have roughly 12 million monthly active users, which is a lot of people, and
Speaker:they're all queer, and they're all looking to connect with one another.
Speaker:And so our mission, which -- this is now a
Speaker:13-year-old company, and so it's been through different leaders and groups of
Speaker:people running it -- but I think the mission has stayed more or less the same.
Speaker:And the way we describe it is, it's our
Speaker:mission to connect queer LGBTQ+ people with one another and with the world.
Speaker:And you mentioned proximity just a second ago.
Speaker:Why is that so important to building community?
Speaker:The Internet has opened up the world to everybody, and we can create community
Speaker:online, but speak really quickly to proximal communing, and just connecting.
Speaker:I think a lot of social media aims to BE
Speaker:your social relationships, to completely intermediate them.
Speaker:And that is not what Grindr does.
Speaker:Grindr is there to accelerate your social relationships with people offline.
Speaker:And so the point is to actually meet people and to get to know people.
Speaker:And yeah, you can chat on the app for as
Speaker:long as you want, and if that's where you're most comfortable and feel like
Speaker:connecting there is what's right for you, then that's great.
Speaker:But the idea is that people who are close
Speaker:to one another will want to meet up in person, and we are encouraging of that.
Speaker:Obviously, you have to be safe and we have
Speaker:this very detailed, robust safety guide that we share with all of our users.
Speaker:But we think people meeting people is really important.
Speaker:It's sort of like the foundation of it's,
Speaker:somewhere in the middle of Maslow's hierarchy.
Speaker:So we think it's pretty important.
Speaker:Well, first of all, I just want to say I
Speaker:love what you just said a few minutes ago about growing up in a smaller town, and
Speaker:then just really feeling like you're the only queer person there.
Speaker:I'm from the suburbs outside of Philly,
Speaker:and it's so interesting how Philly is such a....
Speaker:I mean, famously gay! You know, we have
Speaker:the Gayborhood, and that's where I ended up going to college.
Speaker:But prior to that, I remember feeling the exact same way.
Speaker:It's like, "oh, I'm the sole gay person in
Speaker:the world." And then I moved into a place called, on Google Maps!, called the
Speaker:Gayborhood, with rainbow signs on every street sign and, you know...just amazing.
Speaker:So. I love that thought.
Speaker:I've never put that into words before, but can you tell me, in your personal
Speaker:experience, did you use Grindr prior to working for Grindr?
Speaker:Oh, yes, funny story!
Speaker:We love those.
Speaker:I was living in the Middle East in Doha,
Speaker:Qatar, and a friend of mine came back from the US.
Speaker:And was like, "you would not believe what they have now!" I was like, "What?!?
Speaker:Like, there's an app just to find other gay people, what?!?"
Speaker:And you couldn't download it there, and there are reasons why you couldn't
Speaker:download it there that you could fill a whole other podcast about...
Speaker:But, so, I didn't really download it until
Speaker:after I left. I was in Doha for two years, and then I moved to San Francisco.
Speaker:And then I got to San Francisco -- I land there -- I spent years in the Middle East.
Speaker:I'm not acculturated to
Speaker:[laughs] Northern California, and didn't have any gay friends there.
Speaker:And so the first thing I did was download Grindr.
Speaker:And even though I lived like a mile from the Castro, that was still one of the ways
Speaker:where I started to make gay and queer friends right off the jump.
Speaker:And I was like, "oh my God, there's so many of us here!"
Speaker:Grindr does not feel like Match.com, Tinder, Bumble.
Speaker:It's not designed the same way it came
Speaker:before these apps, and it's designed very differently.
Speaker:So those apps all, it's like a swipe model, right?
Speaker:You're like shown a card and you see some information, you see a picture, you see
Speaker:some pictures, it's left or right and you make a decision.
Speaker:And maybe you match, maybe you don't.
Speaker:There's basically a control valve these companies have of how many people they're
Speaker:showing you, and it's algorithmically determined.
Speaker:And it's probably a little bit like gambling, right?
Speaker:Like, they're going to give you a match
Speaker:one in every 125 swipes to keep you interested and engaged.
Speaker:We don't do that.
Speaker:That's not the point.
Speaker:We hope people make connection.
Speaker:And at the core of the queer LGBTQ
Speaker:experience is sex in one way, shape, or form, right?
Speaker:Sexual expression, sexual exploration, identity.
Speaker:So at the core of any gay app is going to be sex.
Speaker:But it's much more than that, I think.
Speaker:And the app's structure of the application speaks to that.
Speaker:My own personal experience with Grindr has
Speaker:been way better when it's about just making friends and chatting with people in
Speaker:new places than getting into the whole hookup-y thing.
Speaker:That's fine and good and great, but personally, I have been, in my life, less
Speaker:frustrated when I'm just on there looking for friends and people.
Speaker:Did the community create Grindr or did
Speaker:Grindr help cultivate the community, how people interact and talk to one another?
Speaker:I will say definitely Grindr did not create the community.
Speaker:Absolutely not. Yeah.
Speaker:And specifically, "hookup culture."
Speaker:Did the app create that culture, or was the culture already there?
Speaker:Definitely not, I think.
Speaker:Okay, great.
Speaker:The great thing about being gay is there's actually this incredibly long and well
Speaker:documented history, particularly since the 1960s.
Speaker:Or even since the 1950s. A ctually, for the last 2000 years!
Speaker:There's some pretty fascinating history
Speaker:documented of LGBTQ people, whether or not they were called that.
Speaker:And more recently, you've got books like
Speaker:"The Answer from the Dance," and "Faggots," and "Giovanni's Room." And
Speaker:these are all books that were written in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and they describe a
Speaker:culture that anybody who's in the queer community today would read and go, "oh,
Speaker:yeah, that sounds like Saturday night at 3-Dollar Bill!"
Speaker:I think hookup culture existed
Speaker:for sure, although most of my adult sexual life has been since Grindr was out.
Speaker:But at the same time, Grindr is not so much a product of the community.
Speaker:Grindr is like so many pieces of
Speaker:technology, kind of like a mirror or a cipher for human behavior.
Speaker:At its core, it's a very simple and basic piece of technology.
Speaker:It's literally just accounts on a proximity grid.
Speaker:That is like, really basic stuff.
Speaker:And all of our competitors have copied that [laughs].
Speaker:So it's really how you use it.
Speaker:And I think it's really with all pieces of
Speaker:technology, like Jia Tolentino's, "Trick Mirror," where she talks about, we look at
Speaker:this thing and we see human behavior on this unbelievably massive scale that we
Speaker:probably were never supposed to see it at, right?
Speaker:And I think a lot of what we see in this
Speaker:giant, giant "Trick Mirror" is stuff that we don't particularly like sometimes.
Speaker:And sometimes it's stuff that we do really like.
Speaker:We have I think a tendency to focus on stuff that we don't.
Speaker:In any event, I think that it's definitely a product of gay culture in many ways.
Speaker:I mean, I don't know, we could go deep on this for a long time.
Speaker:To just straight answer your question,
Speaker:Grindr is more the product of the community than anything else.
Speaker:Yeah. And I feel like one of the beauty of
Speaker:Grindr specifically is that it's creating, it's taking something with
Speaker:so much history -- like you said, that had to, at many points in history, be
Speaker:underground -- and making it visible and then as a result, safer in so many ways
Speaker:and making it more transparent, which is incredible.
Speaker:And so I'm curious because, for example, during New York Pride or
Speaker:Philly Pride, there is so much Grindr merch everywhere, right?
Speaker:Which is amazing.
Speaker:What would you say is Grindr's presence offline?
Speaker:What is your mission in supporting local queer spaces?
Speaker:This is something about which I personally care a great deal, and the company is
Speaker:really committed to. We've talked about how we see ourselves as facilitating and
Speaker:accelerating social relationships, not replacing them.
Speaker:And there is a whole and the sort of hyper-local nature of our business is
Speaker:showing people things like, right there, that they can go and walk to and meet.
Speaker:And we want that to carry over into how we
Speaker:support queer businesses, bars, nightlife and experiences.
Speaker:That, over the last two years has been
Speaker:something that's been pretty hard to do, with COVID.
Speaker:And we've sort of fought that fight as everyone else has.
Speaker:We've done a lot to partner with a group called Save Our Spaces, which is focused
Speaker:specifically on helping keep LGBTQ bars and nightlife venues open and thriving.
Speaker:And we've, I think, done 30 different bar
Speaker:activations, all COVID-protocol compliant, just to keep
Speaker:driving traffic to those bars where we traditionally have showed up.
Speaker:And we want to make sure those bars continue to be successful.
Speaker:There is no Grindr without gay spaces.
Speaker:There's really not, right?
Speaker:I think that there's a lot of...
Speaker:One thread of things that I hear, and I've been at the company three months, so I've
Speaker:heard everybody has called me to criticize the company, and to praise the company,
Speaker:and I've sort of heard everything from every side.
Speaker:And one criticism is, oh, well, Grindr's killing gay bars.
Speaker:I was like, I don't actually know if
Speaker:that's true because, yes, you can now go on Grindr and meet people.
Speaker:And before you could only really go to gay
Speaker:bars, at the same time, it's become much more socially acceptable to be gay.
Speaker:So I think gay people are showing up sort
Speaker:of everywhere, and everywhere is a little bit of a gay bar now.
Speaker:And you can take it or leave it, but I'm a big believer in having space that is
Speaker:specifically for queer people and puts queer people first.
Speaker:And I think we are looking for, now that we're moving into sort of this next phase
Speaker:of COVID where things are -- we know how to handle things -- I think we're going to
Speaker:be doing more stuff offline that we're really excited about.
Speaker:Just for people who may be listening and
Speaker:aren't super familiar with the logistics of Grindr, can you just tell us how you
Speaker:specifically provide that info to other users?
Speaker:Totally. So when you sign up, we walk you
Speaker:through it, you sort of have to click all the boxes and say all the things.
Speaker:And we encourage you to take a look at our privacy policy.
Speaker:And we will regularly push into the
Speaker:Inbox -- which is just where all your messages show up -- we'll push messages
Speaker:letting you know about things going on in your community.
Speaker:We'll let you know about, if there's safety things going on, or there have
Speaker:definitely been times when there's been an STI outbreak in a particular area, and
Speaker:we've been able to push a notification to encourage testing, things like that.
Speaker:So that like really basic. It's really basic.
Speaker:It's just literally sending messages to people, based on where they are, with the
Speaker:information that we think that they're going to need.
Speaker:And this becomes particularly helpful in countries -- because we're not just
Speaker:operational in the US, we're operational in nearly every country in the world, and
Speaker:that includes countries where it is illegal to be gay.
Speaker:And we don't operate in those countries
Speaker:because we think we're going to get subscription revenue or anything.
Speaker:We operate in those countries because the third-party LGBTQ+
Speaker:activists who are operational there have asked us to stay operational in those
Speaker:countries, because we create opportunity for people there to connect with one
Speaker:another that they really wouldn't have otherwise.
Speaker:There's a greater burden of security in those places.
Speaker:So in places like Egypt, we push daily
Speaker:safety messages to our users, letting them know about what's going on.
Speaker:And we do that in a number of different
Speaker:places where it is much more risky to be gay.
Speaker:And again, that information typically is coming from -- it's not our information,
Speaker:it's information from these nonprofits and third parties.
Speaker:We're just acting as connective tissue again, and making sure our users stay
Speaker:safe. W e don't monetize or make any money
Speaker:off it, this is purely like, this is just the right thing to do, to stay in these
Speaker:countries and to help people connect with one another, even if there are risks.
Speaker:Which is amazing.
Speaker:And I'm really happy that you're here to share that.
Speaker:So people know that Grindr extends beyond connections.
Speaker:It's also information, it's also safety,
Speaker:it's all these different things rolled into one.
Speaker:So, Patrick Lenahan, thank you so much for taking the time to come on here and talk
Speaker:to us about not just the app and not just the culture, but the overall community.
Speaker:And just learning these different
Speaker:dynamics, it certainly was enlightening for me.
Speaker:Yeah. Thank you so much.
Speaker:We really appreciate your time. Thank you guys for having me on.
Speaker:I really appreciate it.
Speaker:[show music]
Speaker:So what surprised you most about this conversation around Grindr?
Speaker:Oh, my God. I thought I knew everything about Grindr.
Speaker:My biggest takeaway from that is how
Speaker:Grindr works in other parts of the world and areas where it might not at all be
Speaker:okay -- it's sometimes illegal -- to be gay, and so then they have the whole not
Speaker:just their usual community and all that, but then they also have the ability with
Speaker:those extra features in places like that where they have notifications to keep
Speaker:yourself physically safe, keep your health safe.
Speaker:That is dope. No, it's really important.
Speaker:Like, if there's an STI outbreak in a certain pocket of a place, you can
Speaker:know about that, and have information about your health, that is always good.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:it's not all about sex.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Some of this was just about building
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:community and meeting people with similar interests.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:You might be in a space where... Obviously we live in a cis-hetero-dominated
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:narrative space in most of our communities.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:So being able to navigate and meet new people is always fun and always great.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:We're social animals.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:We need to always build and grow, no matter what our orientations are.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yeah. Not everyone gets the luxury of living in
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:the Gayborhood in Philadelphia, like I did all through college.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:I'm sure that was fun. Oh, buddy...!
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:[laughter]
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:On the topic of hookups, first of all, we can see how insane the
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:changes in science and medicine -- the positive changes -- have been, from as far
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:as hundreds of years ago to 50 years ago to even five years ago.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And it really changes the risks and the perception of hookup culture, right?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Because now we have a lot more of an ability to do it safely.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Absolutely. I haven't hooked up a bunch, and I'm in a
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:relationship right now, so I don't hook up at all.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:But what I really appreciate is just how that's really being held as a "normal
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:human behavior," the nee,d or desire, the urge, to want to connect with someone and
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:be intimate or have a moment, a brief moment, but do it safely and do it in a
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:way where we're not dehumanizing anyone or jeopardizing anyone's health.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:So I appreciate that.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Really entering the space of science and
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:behavior and medicine and so on and so forth.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:As with all questions that come up, we got a consult with our girl, the chief
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:bioscientist at the Franklin Institute, Dr.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Jayatri Das. Hey, Bey.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Hey, Kirsten. How are you?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Good. How are you?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Good. So we're talking hookup culture, right?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Uhhh...Yeah.Hell, yeah.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Aren't we always?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Well, I think what fascinates me as an
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:entry point into this topic is just how common it is.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:I was looking at some data, and some of the most recent data actually suggests
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:that looking at college students, 60% to 80% of college students have had some type
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:of hookup experience, and it's common among younger teens as well.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:But this is clearly, like,
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:a very common experience that's kind of embedded in our culture these days.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:60% to 80% is a large number. That's a big number.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yeah.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:So, Jayatri, tell us a little bit about
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:your research in the topic of hookup culture.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Well, one of the things that I was interested in, from a biological point of
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:view is, where is this culture coming from?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Because maybe it's always existed, but
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:we're also seeing some changes in physiological trends about how our bodies
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:work that intersect, again with some social trends that I think people are
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:looking at, as a reason for why there's this prevalence of hookup culture.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And so if you look at the United States,
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:the age at which people get married and reproduce is getting later and later, and
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:that's definitely tied to a lot of social factors.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And at the same time, the age at which
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:kids are reaching puberty is getting younger.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And so there's this longer time span in which young adults are ready for
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:reproduction and physiological interactions in that sense,
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:but they're not psychologically or socially ready to settle down yet.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And so that increased time frame, I think, is part of the reason that scientists and
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:social scientists think, that has given rise to the prevalence of hookup culture.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Interesting. So if I'm understanding you correctly,
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:there's a much larger gap now between when you're physically able to, and might have
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:the physical urges to have sex versus when socially and logistically and all of that,
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:you can actually be building relationships.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And so that gap is sort of leading to things like hookups.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yeah, that's right.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:So if you look at some of the causes of why we think kids are entering puberty
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:earlier, you look at just the fact that we're healthier across the board.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:So there's lower rates of disease.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Nutrition is changing.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:People have more stability in terms of their health, their food, their shelter.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:There's also some theories that there's potential environmental exposure to
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:chemicals that might disrupt our hormone function.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:There's a lot of questions.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:We don't really know why.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:But you can see trends in that the average
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:age of puberty has decreased by almost a year, which is pretty significant when
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:you're thinking about the lifespan of kids.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yeah. What was the prior average age?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:What did it downgrade to?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:So you're seeing shifts from age 11-12 down to nine or ten.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Hundreds of years ago, we were looking at puberty at age 15-16.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Wow. Right.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:When people were really facing a lot of
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:hardships in just sort of getting to that age beyond childhood disease.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yes.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Which is interesting, because I feel like in older days, at least, the way it's
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:portrayed in movies, yeah, you did go through puberty later, but then that was
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:immediately the age you, like, got married!
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Exactly. Right.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:There was no gap. You didn't have time to hook up.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yeah. Right.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Aww, no time. Yeah.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:I'm starting to notice that there seems to be like, some legitimacy around just
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:sexual pleasures and developing a language around that.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Maybe hookups are part of that. I don't know.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Okay, so we're going to switch gears to part two of "Body of Knowledge."
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:We went to the Internet to find out what people are asking about hooking up.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:We typed in, "how do hookups," and we let the Google algorithm do the rest.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:I'm so curious to see what comes up.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:We saw some of the most commonly asked questions about hookups were, "how do
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:hookups work?" I would love to know as well.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:If I ever find out, I will let them know.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, should I try to answer that?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yeah, go ahead.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:How do hookups work?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Well, it's normally after 07:00 p.m. Maybe?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:I don't know.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Okay, so the next question that we put into the Google search, right, is "how do
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:hookups," and the autocomplete" "how do hookups start?"
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:How do hookups start?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:I mean, you know, a little, "wink, wink, nudge, nudge."
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yeah. Wearing your hottest outfit, feeling good.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yeah.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:I would imagine it's different for everyone.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:There are different entry points. I guess.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:[Laughter] That may have been a terrible framing [laughter], but...
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:There are platforms and apps and numbers and groups and communities.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:There's just different ways, I guess, to do it in 2022.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Some of the work I was reading really focused on the fact that both the
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:motivations to hook up as well as the reactions afterward that people experience
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:are really complicated, and we don't understand them very well.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:So, for example, in one study, they looked
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:at people who are experiencing, maybe feelings of loneliness or depressive
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:symptoms, who might look at a hook-up as a way to feel better.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And in those people, they did see a
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:decrease in those feelings after hooking up.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:So there's like a positive impact there.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:But in the same study, if you looked at
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:people who had fewer of those depressive symptoms starting out, then often these
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:casual engagements end up feeling more depressed afterwards.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:So it's hard to figure out and just really
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:pinpoint why people are doing this for any specific reason.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:I think it really differs and there's a
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:whole spectrum of reactions and feelings that people feel afterwards.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Next, we continued typing in, "how do
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:hookups," and the next question was, "end."
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:How do hookups end, Bey?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Hopefully pleasantly, with everyone being okay with what took place.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Hopefully, amicably?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yeah.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And...quietly?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:[laughter]Great. Okay, Jayatri, what do you think?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:How do hookups end?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:There's a whole spectrum, right?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:There's a little bit of data in terms of
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:what makes people more likely to feel regret.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And some of what I read was that one-night stands, or hooking up with somebody that
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:you've known for less than 24 hours, are two factors that are more likely to
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:predict whether you'll feel regret afterwards.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Damn, that tracks though.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:I mean, it seems like common sense there.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Yeah, right.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:I wasn't really surprised to read that.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Jayatri, as always, thank you so much.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And thank you so much to Patrick for being on this episode of So Curious!
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Next week we are going to talk about what is going on under the surface when we fall
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:in love -- literally, like biologically, what is going on?
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:This and more on next week's episode.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. Wherever you listen to podcasts
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:and music and content, just subscribe right now.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Do it. So Curious!
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:is presented by the Franklin Institute.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And special thanks to the Franklin
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Institute producers, J oy Montefusco and Dr.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Jayatri Das.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:This podcast is produced by Radio Kismet.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Radio Kismet is Philadelphia's premiere podcast production studio.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:The managing producer is Emily Charish.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:The producer is Liliana Green.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:The lead audio engineer and editor is Christian Cedarlund.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:Head of operations is Christopher Plant.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And the editors are Lauren DeLuca and Justin Berger.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:The science writer is Kira Vallette.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And the graphic designer is Emma Sager.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And I am The Bul Bey, signing off for today.
For me, what stood out was:
Speaker:And I am Kirsten Michelle Cills, also signing off for today.
