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John Blackwell: High School Astronomy

Join Derrick Pitts for a conversation with John Blackwell, high school astronomy teacher and director of the Grainger Observatory at Philips Exeter Academy. Listen in as the two discuss the importance of teaching scientific citizenship, what John’s students are currently working on, and what it’s like teaching high schoolers about astronomy in the digital age.

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Transcript
Derrick Pitts:

Hi, I'm Derrick Pitts, and welcome to the Curious Cosmos.

Derrick Pitts:

Say, listeners, can you remember where you first learned about astronomy?

Derrick Pitts:

Was it a planetarium?

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Was it a book?

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Some show someplace?

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Or was it just looking up at the night sky as a kid?

Derrick Pitts:

I'm guessing most of us didn't get the chance to take dedicated

Derrick Pitts:

courses on astronomy in high school.

Derrick Pitts:

But my next guest teaches just that.

Derrick Pitts:

We're going to learn about his experiences in the classroom, his

Derrick Pitts:

unique philosophy on science education, and what it's like teaching teens

Derrick Pitts:

about space in the digital age.

Derrick Pitts:

John Blackwell is an instructor in science and the director of the

Derrick Pitts:

Grainger Observatory at Phillips Exeter Academy in Exeter, New Hampshire.

Derrick Pitts:

In today's world where the main tools of communication are awash with self

Derrick Pitts:

proclaimed trusted sources of information, even the heavily peer reviewed institution

Derrick Pitts:

of science research is challenged to steer carefully through the shark infested

Derrick Pitts:

waters of social media and the internet.

Derrick Pitts:

I met John on a tour of the astronomical observatories of Chile back in 2016.

Derrick Pitts:

The Astronomy in Chile Educational Ambassadors Program is a collaborative

Derrick Pitts:

project of Associated Universities Incorporated, the National

Derrick Pitts:

Radio Astronomy Observatory, the National Optical Astronomy

Derrick Pitts:

Observatory, and Gemini Observatory.

Derrick Pitts:

and is funded in part by the National Science Foundation.

Derrick Pitts:

Good morning, John, and thanks for joining us today.

John Blackwell:

Good morning, Derrick.

John Blackwell:

Thank you for having me here.

Derrick Pitts:

Yeah, great to see you after our trip down to Chile

Derrick Pitts:

where we got to see some really great astronomical equipment

Derrick Pitts:

scanning the southern skies there.

John Blackwell:

Yeah, pretty astounding.

John Blackwell:

I hearken back to the moment, getting out of bed at some crazy hour, and dragging

John Blackwell:

my roommate out to look up at the stars.

John Blackwell:

He was trying to sleep and I'm like, "No, no, no, no, you're not sleeping.

John Blackwell:

You're coming out here where you can read by starlight!"

Derrick Pitts:

Yes, right.

Derrick Pitts:

The skies were amazing in South America, and it's because the Chilean

Derrick Pitts:

government is so amenable to hosting astronomical research in the country.

John Blackwell:

Yeah, that's true.

John Blackwell:

They've been very supportive of the astronomy community, both for the United

John Blackwell:

States and Europe, and now also for various sources like Japan and whatnot

John Blackwell:

are starting to look at Chile as a place to put optical and radio observatories.

John Blackwell:

High altitude, clear skies, it's beautiful.

Derrick Pitts:

In fact, it's estimated that by 2030, over 50 percent of

Derrick Pitts:

global astro research infrastructure We'll be located in Chile.

Derrick Pitts:

It's the up and coming place in the world for astronomical research.

Derrick Pitts:

Now John, you're deeply into astronomy and space exploration.

Derrick Pitts:

Can you tell us a little bit about how you've come to astronomy

Derrick Pitts:

and why you've chosen to teach astronomy in a high school setting?

John Blackwell:

Oh, wow.

John Blackwell:

Long life story.

John Blackwell:

But that's pretty cool.

John Blackwell:

Um, I think I fell in love with astronomy when I individually discovered

John Blackwell:

Saturn when I was nine years old using a small telescope in my backyard.

John Blackwell:

And, you know, type of thing, "hey, Dad, Mom, get out here.

John Blackwell:

Look at this!"

John Blackwell:

You know, from that moment, totally hooked.

John Blackwell:

But of course, at that point, I think it was like eight or nine, I thought

John Blackwell:

I was going to go into geology.

John Blackwell:

I didn't really think of astronomy as a profession.

John Blackwell:

And I guess the irony there was I went all the way up into college seeking a

John Blackwell:

physics and astronomy degree, but kind of rapidly switched directions and went into

John Blackwell:

aeronautical engineering, which naturally got me into software engineering.

John Blackwell:

And I kind of resided in the world of software engineering for 15

John Blackwell:

plus years, until about the year 2000, when I started thinking,

John Blackwell:

"you know, I really miss astronomy.

John Blackwell:

A Lot."

Derrick Pitts:

That's a big diversion there.

John Blackwell:

It was kind of a left turn, and then a right turn, and then a

John Blackwell:

zigzag in the road, you know, and while deciding how to change altitude from

John Blackwell:

aviation and aircraft design and computer science and that type of thing, I started

John Blackwell:

a degree in astrophysics and that was my masters and decided to start looking

John Blackwell:

for work outside of computer science.

John Blackwell:

And interestingly, I fell into this position here.

John Blackwell:

This is my first job where I'm dealing with astronomy directly, but mostly as

John Blackwell:

a teacher, as a guide for young people.

John Blackwell:

And my goodness, Derrick, it's been, it's been 19 years.

John Blackwell:

This is my 19th year teaching here.

Derrick Pitts:

Wow.

John Blackwell:

I just had to do the math in my head, which is the longest

John Blackwell:

I've been at any one job, I suppose.

John Blackwell:

That's pretty cool, huh?

Derrick Pitts:

Yeah, it is.

Derrick Pitts:

Congratulations on that!

John Blackwell:

Thanks.

John Blackwell:

Oh, I love it.

Derrick Pitts:

You know, first of all, astronomy is not the main way in which

Derrick Pitts:

physics is taught in high school.

Derrick Pitts:

So that's a bit of a departure right there.

Derrick Pitts:

And then to actually give students an opportunity to pursue some

Derrick Pitts:

form of research on their own is kind of a high octane pursuit, uh,

Derrick Pitts:

for them, I would, I would guess.

Derrick Pitts:

What kind of research projects are they doing?

John Blackwell:

Very wide ranging, they can be about the history of astronomy,

John Blackwell:

or they can be all the way to collecting data at the observatory and presenting the

John Blackwell:

research findings of that kind of study.

John Blackwell:

Other kids tend to gravitate towards computers, for example, and we'll look at

John Blackwell:

big data or what I call "moderate data."

John Blackwell:

They don't know big data yet, you know, they're kind of thinking that a

John Blackwell:

gigabyte is tremendously large for them.

John Blackwell:

And nowadays, astronomers are talking terabytes.

John Blackwell:

And so, still a couple of orders of magnitude on the lower scale of big

John Blackwell:

data, but quite honestly, astronomy is headed more toward computer

John Blackwell:

analysis than it is actually that old romantic feeling of staying under the

John Blackwell:

stars with a telescope and looking through an eyepiece all night long.

John Blackwell:

That's long gone!

Derrick Pitts:

We've now shifted astronomy from being the work of that lone observer.

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to the work of devices, equipment, thereby enabling astronomers to widely

Derrick Pitts:

survey vast swaths of the sky, or deeply probe a slice of the universe.

Derrick Pitts:

And we accept what the equipment gives us as factual information.

Derrick Pitts:

But we also have to remember that all of the equipment we use, we've

Derrick Pitts:

built them to supplement what our eyes and brain do for us in quote

Derrick Pitts:

unquote seeing and thereby beginning to understand what's happening out there.

John Blackwell:

So right now I've got students that are looking at

John Blackwell:

local Cepheid variables to determine the distance to them correctly

John Blackwell:

using standard magnitude math and period to luminosity relationships.

Derrick Pitts:

Now, while that sounds like a lot of astronomical hocus pocus,

Derrick Pitts:

these actually are the terms that describe being able to measure the

Derrick Pitts:

brightness of objects out in space.

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So star brightness varies for a lot of different reasons, and astronomers

Derrick Pitts:

can use that variability to figure out distance, understand stellar

Derrick Pitts:

function, and to see orbiting planets.

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Now, luminosity is separate from just brightness of a star because

Derrick Pitts:

stars can be quite bright in regions of the spectrum that we can't see.

John Blackwell:

Other kids are looking at the NASA extra galactic database,

John Blackwell:

studying the age of quasars by literally crunching through the numbers.

Derrick Pitts:

A quasar is an extremely luminous active galactic nucleus.

Derrick Pitts:

These very, very massive, very, very active cores can stand out in luminosity

Derrick Pitts:

separate from the rest of the galaxy.

John Blackwell:

I've got one student looking at the history

John Blackwell:

of the discovery of comet nuclei.

Derrick Pitts:

Comet nuclei are the frozen centers of comets composed of

Derrick Pitts:

frozen carbon dioxide and galactic or celestial rocks, dust, and dirt.

Derrick Pitts:

Some comets orbit the sun on a regular schedule.

Derrick Pitts:

Those comets melt a little bit every time they pass around the sun.

Derrick Pitts:

When that happens, the rocks, dust, and dirt sort of come out

Derrick Pitts:

of the melted nucleus and spread out along the path of the comet.

Derrick Pitts:

This eventually becomes what we know of as meteor showers.

John Blackwell:

They went all the way back to ancient Greece, which is a

John Blackwell:

lot further than I thought they'd get.

John Blackwell:

It's like, pretty slick history stuff there.

John Blackwell:

So, right now I'm teaching a selected topics course.

John Blackwell:

We decided to take a very focused look at spectroscopy for the

John Blackwell:

Selected Topics course this winter.

John Blackwell:

There was a mighty cry from the students to learn about how astronomers

John Blackwell:

do spectroscopy and to actually dip their feet into this gigantic swimming

John Blackwell:

pool and try to make sense of it.

John Blackwell:

So this particular course, selected topics, one would think that maybe I

John Blackwell:

select those topics, but it's actually done in concert with the students.

John Blackwell:

When we meet for the first week, we put our heads together and say, "okay, what

John Blackwell:

are we interested in learning this term?

John Blackwell:

Over the next 10 weeks?

John Blackwell:

You have me and we have the observatory equipment and a

John Blackwell:

classroom and a bunch of computers.

John Blackwell:

What do you guys want to do?"

John Blackwell:

And spectroscopy was an overwhelming, yelp, as it were!

Derrick Pitts:

I'm surprised that they would want to pursue spectroscopy.

Derrick Pitts:

I wonder where they get that from.

Derrick Pitts:

I would imagine it comes from their previous course that they took with you.

Derrick Pitts:

So...

Derrick Pitts:

If

John Blackwell:

we simplify it all the way down, we're literally looking at rainbows

John Blackwell:

of objects and it is kind of cool, right?

Derrick Pitts:

Are there any unicorns with those rainbows, John?

Derrick Pitts:

Or is it just the rainbows?

John Blackwell:

Naturally, we started in the classroom doing very

John Blackwell:

basic kind of, let's use a device called a diffraction grading.

John Blackwell:

You can probably get these at the dollar store as, uh, they probably call them

John Blackwell:

"rainbow glasses" or something like that.

Derrick Pitts:

Oh, yes.

Derrick Pitts:

Right.

Derrick Pitts:

Rainbow glasses.

Derrick Pitts:

Sure.

John Blackwell:

You just put them up to your eye.

John Blackwell:

And if you look at a bright light, on either side of the bright light, you'll

John Blackwell:

see the rainbow or the spectrum of that light going off in each direction.

John Blackwell:

So we start there and then we slowly go to the observatory

John Blackwell:

and do it visually and show that stars have these spectra as well.

John Blackwell:

And of course, we're kind of tying that back to introductory astronomy where

John Blackwell:

they learned about these mathematical relationships between thermal radiators,

John Blackwell:

that's things that are hot, give off different colors of spectrum.

John Blackwell:

So the hotter stars get, the bluer they become, and the

John Blackwell:

cooler they are, they get redder.

John Blackwell:

So there are these interesting things that elements do when they're in gaseous form.

John Blackwell:

They can absorb or re-emit specific types of light at very

John Blackwell:

specific colors or wavelengths.

John Blackwell:

And that can be an indicator of all sorts of really cool phenomena.

John Blackwell:

So what gases are present in the star?

John Blackwell:

What chemical elements are there?

John Blackwell:

How strong is the magnetic field?

John Blackwell:

Is the star spinning rapidly?

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Or is it not spinning at all?

John Blackwell:

Is there a gas cloud surrounding the star?

John Blackwell:

Is the star - or perhaps we're looking at a galaxy?

John Blackwell:

Maybe it's moving away from us rapidly.

John Blackwell:

We can actually tell what speed it's moving either directly toward

John Blackwell:

us or away from us using these values of redshift and blueshift.

John Blackwell:

So, lots of really cool stuff comes out of this study.

John Blackwell:

And, of course, we wait for clear skies like no tomorrow.

John Blackwell:

We're in New England!

Derrick Pitts:

Right!

John Blackwell:

Not been a blessed place for weather, so we do a lot of

John Blackwell:

meteorological study along the way!

Derrick Pitts:

Sure.

Derrick Pitts:

Right, right, right.

Derrick Pitts:

New Hampshire is no Chile, is it?

John Blackwell:

No.

John Blackwell:

I'm gonna cry now.

Derrick Pitts:

I know, it's just like the bane of astronomy is the cloudy sky!

Derrick Pitts:

So John, how do you think the work that they are doing

Derrick Pitts:

helps them understand science?

John Blackwell:

The interesting thing about doing particularly hands

John Blackwell:

on lab work like this, enables them not only to read about a topic,

John Blackwell:

there's still this epistemological attachment to "seeing is believing."

John Blackwell:

To have and hold in front of you this information that you yourself

John Blackwell:

collected using an instrument is still, not only very attractive,

John Blackwell:

but it's also proof, right?

Derrick Pitts:

Yeah.

John Blackwell:

That this is real that, "Oh my goodness, that's a redshift!

John Blackwell:

Oh, I never thought I'd see something like that!"

John Blackwell:

This is the real deal people, and you too can do it is really important.

John Blackwell:

We had a discussion the other day about something we call the Copernican

John Blackwell:

principle, which is basically stating that humans are not the center of the universe.

John Blackwell:

Copernicus being the one who posited that the sun was actually

John Blackwell:

the center of our solar system.

John Blackwell:

And then later other astronomers discerning that our sun is

John Blackwell:

not the center of the galaxy, much less the universe, right?

John Blackwell:

So students really do need to think a little bit more outside the box.

John Blackwell:

They've been taught so much and been told so much to have faith or

John Blackwell:

belief in stuff that's in textbooks.

John Blackwell:

And I spend an awful lot of time deliberately unlearning that tradition,

John Blackwell:

so that they can go out and discover it to be true for themselves.

Derrick Pitts:

And that's really important.

Derrick Pitts:

That changes how they see it when they can discover it for themselves.

John Blackwell:

It's a mind changing paradigm of learning.

Derrick Pitts:

In today's world, there are so many other sources for information.

Derrick Pitts:

And I want to sort of establish a separation between the World Wide

Derrick Pitts:

Web, as we know it, and social media, so that we're not vilifying,

Derrick Pitts:

you know, a really useful tool for science in the World Wide Web.

Derrick Pitts:

But social media is propagated by the World Wide Web.

Derrick Pitts:

And, you know, for teenagers today, social media is a major piece of their existence.

Derrick Pitts:

So, does social media affect how you approach teaching science?

John Blackwell:

Not only social media, but just news propagation or

John Blackwell:

the methodology by which science-like information kind of hits the media.

John Blackwell:

The media in and of itself can be pretty filled with inaccurate, or

John Blackwell:

what I like to say is sensational - and I mean really sensational,

John Blackwell:

like overboard sensationalism.

Derrick Pitts:

Oh, you mean like the most amazing green comet

Derrick Pitts:

you've ever seen in your life?

John Blackwell:

Exactly!

John Blackwell:

That was exactly where I was going.

John Blackwell:

Like, this comet has been the bane of my existence for the past two weeks.

John Blackwell:

And it's interesting because it hit the Boston Globe, then it hit a local paper.

John Blackwell:

Front page news, then it hit the Wall Street Journal, of all things, right?

John Blackwell:

I don't even read the Wall Street Journal.

John Blackwell:

Um, the New York Times.

John Blackwell:

And then, now, the faculty and students are like, "When are we gonna

John Blackwell:

go out, look at the green comet!"

Derrick Pitts:

It hasn't been seen for 50, 000 years, John, come on!

John Blackwell:

I know, what's wrong with me?

Derrick Pitts:

And for everybody else listening to our little

Derrick Pitts:

laughing here, for John and I, the inside joke about this is that...

Derrick Pitts:

We know that this comet is just barely visible under the best conditions

Derrick Pitts:

with a medium sized telescope at the minimum, and even then...

Derrick Pitts:

It's not going to be all that impressive.

Derrick Pitts:

But what has happened in the media is that reporters not knowing or

Derrick Pitts:

understanding observational astronomy or having any experience of having

Derrick Pitts:

seen a comet, are revealing to us how little they really know by

Derrick Pitts:

proclaiming this to be such an amazing astronomical object - you must see this!

John Blackwell:

On one hand, they've got people looking up

John Blackwell:

at the sky, which is great.

John Blackwell:

I love that, right?

John Blackwell:

On the other hand, they're promoting a false reality to people, and

John Blackwell:

they all have this incredible high expectation that when they look through

John Blackwell:

a telescope, they're going to see this fantastic image of a green comet.

John Blackwell:

By the way, green's not uncommon in comets.

John Blackwell:

It's very common.

John Blackwell:

It's just a carbon molecule.

John Blackwell:

But, ugh!

John Blackwell:

You know?

Derrick Pitts:

Right, right, right.

Derrick Pitts:

So, for your students who self profess their interest in wanting to know more

Derrick Pitts:

about spectroscopy, I mean, these are students that obviously are excited

Derrick Pitts:

about science because they've chosen that spectroscopy as the direction that they

Derrick Pitts:

want to pursue in these advanced projects.

Derrick Pitts:

But for the students that you see overall, this kind of reporting of science using

Derrick Pitts:

superlatives all the time to generate interest, I'm wondering how you see that

Derrick Pitts:

affecting students' interest in science.

Derrick Pitts:

I'm really curious about how you are helping students

Derrick Pitts:

see this world of science.

John Blackwell:

Now, it's a really important point of view here.

John Blackwell:

Our number one goal is to promote good scientific citizenship among the students

John Blackwell:

so that they do understand the basics of how to identify something that's grossly

John Blackwell:

inaccurate, or even slightly inaccurate, and then to promote the reality of

John Blackwell:

proper scientific endeavor, right?

John Blackwell:

Science is about a preponderance of evidence.

John Blackwell:

It's about collecting data, doing analysis of data in an unbiased manner in order

John Blackwell:

to obtain a better understanding of the natural processes that surround us.

John Blackwell:

And I promote that vigorously.

John Blackwell:

To the point where I actually design laboratory work, where there is a

John Blackwell:

null result where the students do not arrive at a result that is expected.

John Blackwell:

In fact, they don't arrive at any result.

John Blackwell:

They just get all this data.

John Blackwell:

There's absolutely no solution, no answer, and I can conclude

John Blackwell:

nothing from this research.

John Blackwell:

And that's actually fairly disturbing to a lot of students that have never

John Blackwell:

had a lab totally fail, but this is a designed arrival at no conclusion.

John Blackwell:

And I'm really curious to see how they approach it logically,

John Blackwell:

as a scientific endeavor.

John Blackwell:

And then, really importantly, how they report that back in a write up.

John Blackwell:

We're talking about me being an astronomy teacher, but the

John Blackwell:

big reality, let's face it, not everybody's gonna become an astronomer!

John Blackwell:

You know, I consider myself really, really fortunate if one of these kids

John Blackwell:

I teach, you know, a couple hundred kids each year, one of them goes into

John Blackwell:

something glancingly close to astronomy.

John Blackwell:

The big goal, of course, is to get them invested in understanding

John Blackwell:

what's happening with our planet.

John Blackwell:

A better understanding of the physical processes they're in,

John Blackwell:

so that they understand things like global climate change.

John Blackwell:

Those are big words and very scary situations that our generation and

John Blackwell:

prior generations have kind of like, dumped into the lap of these kids.

John Blackwell:

They're going to need a good understanding of scientific processes.

John Blackwell:

They're going to need to understand how science can validate a reality.

John Blackwell:

And how realities can be changed by human activity.

Derrick Pitts:

Are there ways in which any of this way of thinking or the

Derrick Pitts:

way in which you're teaching might be applied to other people, for whom

Derrick Pitts:

science has always been a challenge?

Derrick Pitts:

I don't want to, you know, point out adults particularly, but I'll just say...

Derrick Pitts:

Those that have been on the planet a little bit longer have had more

Derrick Pitts:

time to sort of have these biases and attitudes and peer group

Derrick Pitts:

orientation kind of baked in.

Derrick Pitts:

Do you see ways in which we might be able to help those people see

Derrick Pitts:

the world with a more critical eye?

John Blackwell:

Yeah.

John Blackwell:

I think at some level, people need to come to grips with how dependent

John Blackwell:

they already are upon science for doing an awful lot of what they

John Blackwell:

take for granted on a daily basis.

Derrick Pitts:

Sure.

John Blackwell:

I mean, let's take the automobile, for example, which is

John Blackwell:

a classic engineering construct from the Benz company way back when to, uh,

John Blackwell:

Ford and the creation of the assembly line, all the way up to modern day cars.

John Blackwell:

The vast majority of adults in this country have cars.

John Blackwell:

Uh, maybe even more than one, and they're dependent upon all the scientific

John Blackwell:

things and these engineering things to go back over a hundred years.

John Blackwell:

From the creation of gasoline and oil, synthetic oils, the creation of

John Blackwell:

better metals and plastics, to computer chips technology that enables the

John Blackwell:

automobile to get better gas mileage, better power, et cetera, et cetera.

John Blackwell:

And then cell phones.

John Blackwell:

The cell phones, micro miniaturized electronics, and basically

John Blackwell:

it's a handheld computer.

John Blackwell:

We laughingly call it a cell phone, but I wonder how many

John Blackwell:

people actually use it as a phone.

John Blackwell:

90% of the time they're busy looking at a website, or using

John Blackwell:

it to calculate some value.

John Blackwell:

Or maybe they're looking at the weather or taking a picture with it!

John Blackwell:

Right?

John Blackwell:

So all of this comes from science.

John Blackwell:

Every bit of it comes from science.

John Blackwell:

But interestingly, the relationship between many people and science

John Blackwell:

has kind of dwindled a little bit.

John Blackwell:

We've become complacent in that.

John Blackwell:

And I think perhaps some of that comes from the fact that people

John Blackwell:

have lost the joy in learning.

John Blackwell:

You know, I think when people actually really love learning something new every

John Blackwell:

day, just a little something that the relationship to their natural surroundings

John Blackwell:

and to science in general also picks up a bit, which is kind of cool!

John Blackwell:

And there was also the interrelationship.

John Blackwell:

between faiths and religion and science, seem to have

John Blackwell:

created dividing lines as well.

John Blackwell:

It's a tricky way to encounter, like, people's lives and belief

John Blackwell:

systems vis a vis science.

John Blackwell:

It is a natural universe.

John Blackwell:

And science is definitely something that has been around.

John Blackwell:

And people trust it, up to a point!

John Blackwell:

And then for some reason there's a point where they don't trust it anymore.

John Blackwell:

And that is something that I've been struggling with as an educator.

John Blackwell:

It's like, where does that line form that determines whether a person trusts

John Blackwell:

science and then all of a sudden, "Mmm, I'm not going to trust that science."

John Blackwell:

Like, where does that happen?

John Blackwell:

And I think there has been a trust lost in the communicability of science.

John Blackwell:

How do we communicate science to people?

John Blackwell:

Has gotten to a point where it's so difficult to understand it that people

John Blackwell:

just shrug it off and say, "well, either I just believe it because they

John Blackwell:

know better than I do, or since I don't believe it because it's so complicated,

John Blackwell:

I'm going to give up on it and turn my cheek and walk away from it."

John Blackwell:

And that's where it gets really scary because at some level, we all have a

John Blackwell:

responsibility, a basic responsibility to understand our natural world.

John Blackwell:

And I'd be lying if I told you I understood how a COVID

John Blackwell:

vaccine really works, right?

John Blackwell:

I'm not a biochemist.

John Blackwell:

I'm certainly not a biochemical engineer, and I'm not a virologist, you know?

John Blackwell:

But I am a scientist, and what's interesting about that is it gives

John Blackwell:

me at least the ability to have some knowledge and understanding that

John Blackwell:

those scientists that are working to create vaccines are doing what they're

John Blackwell:

trained to do, and they're doing it scientifically, and I trust that process.

John Blackwell:

If we can communicate science more readily, having outreach, then this

John Blackwell:

would be a much smoother process.

John Blackwell:

So education, by far, to me, which is why I'm an educator, right, is

John Blackwell:

to get this information to people.

Derrick Pitts:

You know, and you're right about trusting science up to a

Derrick Pitts:

point because, everybody loves to have that handheld device, and they trust

Derrick Pitts:

and use that handheld device, and nobody wants to deny the science of that.

John Blackwell:

Right?

John Blackwell:

Who knows what this thing is doing right now?

Derrick Pitts:

Who knows what that thing is doing?

Derrick Pitts:

Right.

Derrick Pitts:

I'm terribly worried about the extra capabilities that are inside that

Derrick Pitts:

we haven't been told about yet.

Derrick Pitts:

In a way, you've already answered it, John, but I'm going to ask it again.

Derrick Pitts:

Other than your concern about how your future is going to be shaped by the youth

Derrick Pitts:

coming out of high school and college in the next few years, why is it that

Derrick Pitts:

you're so deeply committed to educating students, and educating anybody, about

Derrick Pitts:

the universe and about space exploration?

Derrick Pitts:

Why are you so deeply committed to this?

John Blackwell:

Wow.

John Blackwell:

My love of the science is, is one thing.

John Blackwell:

It's very personal, I suppose, as well, but I think that people have

John Blackwell:

often missed the opportunity to engage with nature in so many ways.

John Blackwell:

And it's from nature that humanity arises.

John Blackwell:

And nature is vastly larger than humanity.

John Blackwell:

We may think we're important, and we may be important, but when you

John Blackwell:

go outside and see green trees and flowering plants and a squirrel

John Blackwell:

bearing a nut and stars at nighttime.

John Blackwell:

Maybe you see the moon in the daytime as like a first

John Blackwell:

quarter or something like that.

John Blackwell:

We have been given this beautiful opportunity of living in a

John Blackwell:

universe that has so much to offer us in terms of "cool factor."

Derrick Pitts:

Yes.

John Blackwell:

Right?

John Blackwell:

Why not spend some time enjoying that and having a sense of place?

John Blackwell:

That's very important to me.

John Blackwell:

And it's also interesting that students, once they start getting invested in the

John Blackwell:

laboratory work, it's not uncommon to see a student just pause at the telescope,

John Blackwell:

and maybe they're imaging a galaxy cluster, and then you'll see tears kind of

John Blackwell:

falling down their face as they realize, I never really thought about looking at

John Blackwell:

hundreds of billions of stars, and that there must be hundreds of millions of

John Blackwell:

planets, and there's maybe life out there.

John Blackwell:

And this conception of how big the universe really is

John Blackwell:

suddenly strikes a student.

John Blackwell:

It's a magical moment for them, and it's a magical moment for me.

John Blackwell:

Becoming a critical thinker?

John Blackwell:

Yeah.

John Blackwell:

High on my list of to dos.

John Blackwell:

You know, getting people to think critically, to become responsible,

John Blackwell:

unbiased thinkers, to be able to ask questions about the world and the universe

John Blackwell:

in which they live, big topics for me.

Derrick Pitts:

Well, I think you're doing really fabulous work.

Derrick Pitts:

There's nothing like teaching kids about the universe to have specifically that

Derrick Pitts:

effect and that outcome that you just mentioned about the realization of how

Derrick Pitts:

big the universe is and, you know, what their place might be in the universe.

Derrick Pitts:

And that goes a long way to really helping those kids have a totally new

Derrick Pitts:

perspective on, on who they are and their life and their place in the universe.

Derrick Pitts:

Great stuff.

Derrick Pitts:

John, I want to thank you for taking the time to chat with

Derrick Pitts:

me today about these topics.

Derrick Pitts:

These are, you know, it's really interesting to get a perspective on how

Derrick Pitts:

our kids are learning about the universe, how they're learning that they can really

Derrick Pitts:

better understand the world of science, become critical thinkers, satisfy their

Derrick Pitts:

curiosities, and all doing this as high school students very early in their life.

Derrick Pitts:

So hats off to you for doing that great work with these students and keep up the

Derrick Pitts:

good work and glad you could be with us.

John Blackwell:

Thank you, Derek.

John Blackwell:

Really appreciate being on the show with you today.

John Blackwell:

It's been fun.

John Blackwell:

Cheers.

Derrick Pitts:

As I think about my conversation with John, I'm struck

Derrick Pitts:

by the last story he told about seeing students tear up behind

Derrick Pitts:

the eyepiece of the telescope.

Derrick Pitts:

Even in this digital age, the simple experience of observing a celestial

Derrick Pitts:

object reconnects us to an ancient time when we were closer to the universe.

Derrick Pitts:

When we stood in the dark and just looked up into a pristine sky and

Derrick Pitts:

wondered, what are those lights?

Derrick Pitts:

Thanks for joining us.

Derrick Pitts:

We'll see you next time on the Curious Cosmos.

Derrick Pitts:

This podcast is made in partnership with RADIOKISMET Philadelphia's

Derrick Pitts:

premier podcast production studio.

Derrick Pitts:

This podcast is produced by Amy Carson.

Derrick Pitts:

The Franklin Institute's Director of Digital Editorial is Joy Montefusco,

Derrick Pitts:

and Erin Armstrong runs Marketing, Communications, and Digital Media.

Derrick Pitts:

Head of Operations is Christopher Plant.

Derrick Pitts:

Our mix engineer is Justin Berger, and I'm Derrick Pitts, chief

Derrick Pitts:

astronomer and director of the Fels Planetarium at the Franklin Institute,

Derrick Pitts:

and your host for this podcast.

Derrick Pitts:

Thanks so much for listening.

The Franklin Institute

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