“For many people, technology makes things easier. For some people, technology makes things possible!” In this episode, Angelica and Bey chat with the crew at TechOwl about designing life-changing technology for people who need it. Also in this episode, we also talk to Philadelphia artist Mason Carter about his experience using a prosthetic leg.
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Transcript
Hello, world, and welcome to So Curious, presented by the Franklin Institute.
Speaker:In this season Human 20, we will be talking to scientists and non-scientists
Speaker:alike about technology and innovation surrounding the human experience.
Speaker:We're your hosts.
Speaker:I'm Angelica Pasquini.
Speaker:And I'm the Bul Bey.
Speaker:But you can just call me Bey.
Speaker:In today's episode, we'll be talking to
Speaker:the director of the Gene Editing Institute, Dr.
Speaker:Eric Kmiec, and chief bioscientist at the Franklin Institute, Dr.
Speaker:Jayatri Das.
Speaker:Today we're going to be talking about personalized health and genetics.
Speaker:Personalized health and genetics is like,
Speaker:what, 23andMe, spitting into tubes, DNA tests. Have you done any of this?
Speaker:Yeah. You know what, I did?
Speaker:My roommate was moving to Beijing and she
Speaker:had a 23andMe and was like, listen, I'm not going to be able to do this.
Speaker:I've got to go.
Speaker:And I was like, okay, I'll do it.
Speaker:So we're just sitting in the apartment and
Speaker:I tried it, and then I got information back, and it turned out that I was a
Speaker:little more Italian than some of my siblings.
Speaker:And it's funny because your genetics
Speaker:aren't the same necessarily as everyone in your family.
Speaker:Each of us has our own breakdown. And do I regret it?
Speaker:Yes. Because then later I found out that they
Speaker:sell the data, but we'll get into that later.
Speaker:How about you?
Speaker:I haven't done any swabbing or spitting them myself, but my brother took an
Speaker:African ancestry test that traces, I think, the maternal line, essentially the
Speaker:mothers of the family all the way back to the continent.
Speaker:There's some accuracy there.
Speaker:But you brought up such a great point.
Speaker:There's so much more diversity within one small group than we ever give credit for.
Speaker:Like a small nucleus of family members.
Speaker:The gene genetics and the diversity in there is a lot.
Speaker:And we think everybody's just like
Speaker:identical, and we're all a little distinct.
Speaker:Yeah. Also, I think that sometimes with
Speaker:personalized health and genetics, you can take a test that will show you what you
Speaker:could be mindful of in the future as far as your health is concerned and how to be
Speaker:aware of what you have dispositions towards in your health.
Speaker:Right. And we'll be going into all of these
Speaker:little tidbits, but things evolve and grow.
Speaker:DNA and genes and things like that do the same.
Speaker:And what's good for you may not be good for someone else.
Speaker:What's good for your mom may not be good for you.
Speaker:These little health tips that she might give you.
Speaker:Or at least maybe I'm projecting.
Speaker:Maybe I'll talk about my mother right now.
Speaker:I'll just stop.
Speaker:No, go on.
Speaker:I think that, yeah, I mean, i f I knew that...
Speaker:I think a lot of people do breast cancer
Speaker:testing and things like that, just like if they have a certain type of gene, they can
Speaker:know, they can get ahead of it before it could get potentially dangerous for them.
Speaker:That kind of thing is actually, I think, a really amazing innovation.
Speaker:I think it's time to transition into our first expert interview with Dr.
Speaker:Eric Kmiec.
Speaker:Our next guest is Dr.
Speaker:Eric Kmiec. Dr.
Speaker:Kmiec has directed the Gene Editing Institute of the Helen F.
Speaker:Graham Cancer Center and Research Institute at Christiana Care since 2014.
Speaker:He is widely recognized for his pioneering
Speaker:work in molecular medicine and gene editing.
Speaker:Throughout his career, Dr.
Speaker:Kmiec has led research teams developing
Speaker:genetic therapies for inherited disorders like sickle cell disease.
Speaker:He is the author of over 140 scientific
Speaker:publications and has been awarded multiple research awards from the National
Speaker:Institute of Health and the American Cancer Society.
Speaker:Hello and welcome. Dr.
Speaker:Kmiec. Can you start by introducing yourself?
Speaker:I'm Eric.
Speaker:I'm the Director of Christiana Care's Gene Editing Institute.
Speaker:And over the past few years, with some
Speaker:recent discoveries, there's a movement now to be able to put some genetic medicine
Speaker:and gene therapy into the clinic and actually begin treating patients.
Speaker:And you work with clustered regular....oh, here we go.
Speaker:Can you say it five times fast?
Speaker:Can you talk about CRISPR? The technology?
Speaker:Gene editing is a process that's like genetic "spell checking." Our DNA can be
Speaker:thought of as a series of letters, actually, over 3 billion of them.
Speaker:They are broken up into words, which can be functionally considered genes.
Speaker:And occasionally one of those words is misspelled.
Speaker:Then, up to this point, it's been really hard, no matter how hard we've tried, to
Speaker:be able to replace or fix or repair or do a genetic "spell check" on genes.
Speaker:And real quick, when you say "misspelled," you mean flawed?
Speaker:Yeah. And in what way?
Speaker:There are four bases in DNA, and let's say
Speaker:there's supposed to be a T in one position and it's an A, and that just comes from
Speaker:inheriting malfunctioning genes or sequences from your parents.
Speaker:What does that look like on a human?
Speaker:Probably the one genetic disease that
Speaker:people have wanted to approach with this is sickle cell disease.
Speaker:So sickle cell disease is caused by a single base or a single letter that's
Speaker:incorrect in the entire human genome , or on all your chromosomes.
Speaker:There hasn't been a very good series of treatments developed for sickle cell.
Speaker:So actually, for most inherited diseases,
Speaker:CRISPR is now maybe the first genetic tool that might be able to address it.
Speaker:So a fair bit of work is going on around
Speaker:that. The people in my lab are pretty good at using CRISPR.
Speaker:We have a very active lab doing that work now.
Speaker:So there's actually some hope for
Speaker:something that has been a dreaded inherited disease for a long time.
Speaker:And you can see in the embryo, that typo?
Speaker:If we're using the Microsoft Word, we're going to use that analogy?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Shortly after a child is born, there are a number of genetic tests that are done to
Speaker:predict what sort of inappropriate genes or typos or mutations are present.
Speaker:This is also kind of important, on a
Speaker:slightly related topic, is the importance of having genetic counseling and genetic
Speaker:testing being done to parents prior to conception. We'll at least inform folks
Speaker:that there's a chance here that you could pass this gene onto your child.
Speaker:And if they make a decision to go ahead, it's not our place to tell them not to do
Speaker:it, but at least they have the information ahead of it.
Speaker:And CRISPR and many other practices falls under precision medicine?
Speaker:Precision medicine. Yes. Can you tell us about that?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:So precision medicine right now is not so precise.
Speaker:Got you.
Speaker:We have a dedication to try to figure out the complexities of diseases.
Speaker:Now, this actually started primarily in cancer therapy.
Speaker:What happened was people thought there's got to be a better way, and they started
Speaker:to understand more about the proteins and the DNA and the guts of the cell, and they
Speaker:developed these things called targeted therapies.
Speaker:Keytruda, you'll see advertised on television.
Speaker:Opdivo.
Speaker:These are targeted therapies that have
Speaker:been designed to attack a specific genetic trait in a specific patient.
Speaker:And that's why we call it precision medicine.
Speaker:It's going after a certain number of people.
Speaker:The problem is, it's a certain number of people.
Speaker:So Keytruda is a very good drug, but it
Speaker:only is appropriate for 19% to 20% of lung cancer patients.
Speaker:They can be treated, but it will do no good.
Speaker:And that's a tough conversation. Absolutely.
Speaker:People try everything, they do. Okay.
Speaker:So what are your conceptions of treating cancer?
Speaker:So it's a very complex issue with very complex treatment.
I'm just going to ask:if it happened to you or someone in your family, like
I'm just going to ask:precision treatment is what you would hope you could be able to do?
I'm just going to ask:So the standard of care, chemotherapy,
I'm just going to ask:radiation, targeted therapies, immunotherapy, they actually do work.
I'm just going to ask:A lot of times the side effects are worse than the disease itself.
I'm just going to ask:And so what we try to do is we try to augment those side effects.
I'm just going to ask:And by doing that, you allow the standard of care therapy to work better.
I'm just going to ask:So if I could make you less sick over chemotherapy and keep you healthier in
I'm just going to ask:response, you would be able to respond better to that specific therapy.
I'm just going to ask:So that's where I think CRISPR and genetic medicine is going.
I'm just going to ask:So we're working on eliminating a gene in a tumor by directly placing CRISPR into
I'm just going to ask:the tumor, that causes that tumor to be resistant to chemotherapy.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:03
number one, it allows the tumor to remain small
And so that allows now two things 00:09:09
or even shrink, and then that allows the surgeon to go in and remove it because the
And so that allows now two things 00:09:14
best therapy is surgical removal of a tumor.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:17
But in some cases, those tumors have gone around blood vessels and you can't do it.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:22
So it's a really ugly situation.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:24
Yeah, that's pretty low-hanging fruit.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:26
Just reduce the size so a surgeon can
And so that allows now two things 00:09:28
remove it, but that's a legitimate endpoint.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:30
You know, Dr.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:31
Kmiec, we did a Google search of CRISPR before you came in.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:33
So we're halfway there, almost where you are.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:36
But the auto-fill response of CRISPR was, "is CRISPR ethical?
And so that allows now two things 00:09:41
Is it legal?
And so that allows now two things 00:09:42
Is it safe?" Can you go on about that and
And so that allows now two things 00:09:46
talk about some of those worries, concerns?
And so that allows now two things 00:09:48
Because clearly those autofills are like what people are generally asking.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:51
Common concerns.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:51
That's a great point, and it's an important one.
And so that allows now two things 00:09:55
So as scientists, they are much more socially-conscious than used to be.
And so that allows now two things 00:10:00
So when you introduce a difficult and
And so that allows now two things 00:10:03
challenging technology, people are at different levels of understanding.
And so that allows now two things 00:10:08
We do not believe, nor will we work on anything related to germline.
And so that allows now two things 00:10:12
So we are not going to design a child by treating a fertilized egg or sperm oocyte.
And so that allows now two things 00:10:20
That's known as germline gene editing.
And so that allows now two things 00:10:22
To us, that's completely unethical
And so that allows now two things 00:10:24
and completely forbidden in the United States.
And so that allows now two things 00:10:27
But like anything, it's open for abuse, so we have to police ourselves.
And so that allows now two things 00:10:32
Is that the structure at this point? You are policing yourselves?
And so that allows now two things 00:10:33
Yeah. So there's no regulations on it yet?
And so that allows now two things 00:10:36
Well, there's regulations.
And so that allows now two things 00:10:37
So the law in the United States, again,
And so that allows now two things 00:10:39
the National Institutes of Health will not fund that kind of research or development.
And so that allows now two things 00:10:44
But can somebody in a private company, in a biotechnology company go do it?
And so that allows now two things 00:10:47
Yes. Right, now that the technology exists.
And so that allows now two things 00:10:51
It completely exists.
And so that allows now two things 00:10:53
I think the other thing about the consequences and the ethics of this...
And so that allows now two things 00:10:58
there is a fairly high misconception that you can engineer human traits.
And so that allows now two things 00:11:04
So you can engineer hair color, eye color, perhaps skin color, creativity,
And so that allows now two things 00:11:09
creativity, athletic abilities, things like that.
And so that allows now two things 00:11:12
And the chances of doing that now are beyond possibilities because they are
And so that allows now two things 00:11:17
controlled by so many different genes that we don't understand.
And so that allows now two things 00:11:21
There's a built-in safety out there that
And so that allows now two things 00:11:23
even if we were to try to design children in the way that we prefer, or induce
And so that allows now two things 00:11:29
certain traits, it would be almost impossible.
And so that allows now two things 00:11:32
Yeah. Right now.
And so that allows now two things 00:11:33
Yeah. Right now.
And so that allows now two things 00:11:35
I think that what's happening is people see, when you begin, where does it go?
And so that allows now two things 00:11:40
And that's what we don't know, too, is like how far things go.
And so that allows now two things 00:11:43
It all starts with treating people who are not well and finding a solution for them,
And so that allows now two things 00:11:48
or maybe someone with a disability, like around hearing or sight.
And so that allows now two things 00:11:52
And then you create something like Siri for them, and then down the line, it's
And so that allows now two things 00:11:56
sold in Mac stores, right? So everything becomes luxury that was once for a need.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:01
Is there a technology that can detect
And so that allows now two things 00:12:03
cancer in an embryo? Can you look at that that early and say, hey, they're likely to
And so that allows now two things 00:12:07
have cancer? Let's gene edit, let's CRISPR?
And so that allows now two things 00:12:10
There are things called genetic panels.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:12
So unfortunately, there's not one specific test that can predict any form of cancer.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:18
We don't know yet.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:19
We don't have the algorithms yet to predict anything.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:23
So we're thinking we're going to get there.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:25
There's a tremendous amount of money and effort and research going into
And so that allows now two things 00:12:28
develop these software programs, and it's an area called bioinformatics.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:33
That being said, there are a few markers for breast cancer, for a certain percent
And so that allows now two things 00:12:38
of breast cancer, there's a gene called BRCA1.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:42
Oh yeah. You can test for that, right? You can test for that.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:44
Right.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:44
And I think there's even a home test for that now, believe it or not.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:47
I have friends that have done that who've lost their moms to breast cancer.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:51
Right. So unfortunately, there isn't a lot of
And so that allows now two things 00:12:53
treatment that's been better, although surgeons would say, no, we're better.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:56
And that could be true.
And so that allows now two things 00:12:58
But it's about diagnosing it early.
And so that allows now two things 00:13:00
And breast cancer, prostate cancer, are
And so that allows now two things 00:13:02
two types of cancer that can be seen early.
And so that allows now two things 00:13:05
So really the two effective things are
And so that allows now two things 00:13:08
early diagnosis, and then the other thing, of course, is surgery.
And so that allows now two things 00:13:12
Cancer is energy-draining.
And so that allows now two things 00:13:14
Your energy just leaves and your cells
And so that allows now two things 00:13:16
can't support you and you pass on from that very wasting kind of disease.
And so that allows now two things 00:13:20
It's very hard to watch.
And so that allows now two things 00:13:22
Is your biggest dream and goal with CRISPR and many other different treatments to
And so that allows now two things 00:13:26
eliminate this completely, or is it just to alleviate the pain and the suffering?
And so that allows now two things 00:13:30
What are your biggest dreams around CRISPR?
And so that allows now two things 00:13:33
The first level is to make standard of
And so that allows now two things 00:13:35
care therapies work better and improve the quality of life.
And so that allows now two things 00:13:39
What we learn from those patients will
And so that allows now two things 00:13:41
eventually draw into preventing it or even reversing it.
And so that allows now two things 00:13:44
So we try to be as realistic as possible because the folks ahead of us who were
And so that allows now two things 00:13:50
pioneers in some ways actually went a little bit too quickly.
And so that allows now two things 00:13:54
So I think that's the right way to approach this right now.
And so that allows now two things 00:13:58
Same with genetic disease.
And so that allows now two things 00:14:00
That's so tough because you want to
And so that allows now two things 00:14:01
help, you want to do some good and change the world and...
And so that allows now two things 00:14:05
Nuance, you know what I'm saying?
And so that allows now two things 00:14:07
Add gray to everything you're doing, and I think you'll always find a better
And so that allows now two things 00:14:12
outcome. Trying to do things absolutely just kind of backfires.
And so that allows now two things 00:14:17
I've always wanted to ask someone like you this kind of question, what is your day-to
And so that allows now two things 00:14:21
-day like with this? Do you have a lot of big picture questions all the time, or do
And so that allows now two things 00:14:25
you sort of find a way to compartmentalize doing this kind of work?
And so that allows now two things 00:14:28
Yeah, I think both.
And so that allows now two things 00:14:30
We always have our eye on the goal line.
And so that allows now two things 00:14:34
We definitely feel that we can contribute something, but at the
And so that allows now two things 00:14:38
same time, we're sort of humbled by the challenge.
And so that allows now two things 00:14:41
A lot of really smart people have come
And so that allows now two things 00:14:43
before us where there were very few original ideas actually in science.
And so that allows now two things 00:14:49
Putting them in different compartments, for me is really sort of thinking about
And so that allows now two things 00:14:53
them in a different angle, different dimension.
And so that allows now two things 00:14:56
And this doesn't stop at 05:00.
And so that allows now two things 00:14:59
There are people in the Institute lab at all hours of the night.
And so that allows now two things 00:15:02
Over Thanksgiving, half of the lab was in
And so that allows now two things 00:15:04
there in the afternoon on Thanksgiving day and the other half on Friday morning.
And so that allows now two things 00:15:07
Because if you're drawn to this kind of work, you can't stop thinking.
And so that allows now two things 00:15:11
So one of the questions that we are constantly asking through this series is,
And so that allows now two things 00:15:14
not only what the science look like, but what do scientists look like?
And so that allows now two things 00:15:18
One of the minorities in science beyond
And so that allows now two things 00:15:20
the obvious ones -- and we need to do a lot better at that -- are actually women.
And so that allows now two things 00:15:24
Interestingly, in the field of gene
And so that allows now two things 00:15:26
editing and CRISPR biology, the majority of the young scientists are women.
And so that allows now two things 00:15:32
That may be linked to the fact that the 2020 Nobel Prize in Chemistry was awarded
And so that allows now two things 00:15:38
to Jennifer Doudna and Emmannuelle Charpentier, two women.
And so that allows now two things 00:15:42
And for the first time, they shared the
And so that allows now two things 00:15:44
prize without a man standing on the podium with them.
And so that allows now two things 00:15:48
And I think we all said it's about time.
And so that allows now two things 00:15:51
One of the things we also do is we're
And so that allows now two things 00:15:53
really trying to get out into the communities to share gene editing as a
And so that allows now two things 00:15:57
breakthrough technology so that we have lots of color in the field.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:02
We're tending to bring breakthrough
And so that allows now two things 00:16:04
technologies to underserved communities by back-teaching them.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:08
Oh, this really works great...
And so that allows now two things 00:16:09
CRISPR and gene editing is a current technology.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:13
So let's work our way in there.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:15
And what we see when we do that with high
And so that allows now two things 00:16:16
school students in summer camps, they love to see women and women of color.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:21
And those are the people they want to talk to, not me.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:24
And that's very important.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:26
So the structure of the population of this
And so that allows now two things 00:16:28
field may help to change the rest of science in general.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:33
That's so dope. Great.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:34
Thank you so much for opening that up and giving us all this fresh information,
And so that allows now two things 00:16:38
because at the beginning, we were like what?
And so that allows now two things 00:16:41
We had no idea what to expect.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:45
What is "clustered regularly....?"
And so that allows now two things 00:16:47
We learned so much.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:50
It's been great. Thank you.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:51
All right. Take care.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:54
All right.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:55
So we just got a lot of information and things presented to us.
And so that allows now two things 00:16:59
Time to reflect.
And so that allows now two things 00:17:06
Well, that was really interesting.
And so that allows now two things 00:17:08
I have to admit, I came in a little
And so that allows now two things 00:17:11
nervous about what we were going to be talking about.
And so that allows now two things 00:17:14
So where are you now?
And so that allows now two things 00:17:17
Cautiously relieved. You?
And so that allows now two things 00:17:19
I really appreciated the presence of ethics.
And so that allows now two things 00:17:23
Right. And trying to be careful
And so that allows now two things 00:17:26
and also acknowledging there is some scary parts of it.
And so that allows now two things 00:17:30
But most people are focused on the early
And so that allows now two things 00:17:33
lifecycle, the embryos, and also at the end.
And so that allows now two things 00:17:36
I absolutely loved that.
And so that allows now two things 00:17:38
This is another cool example of how a
And so that allows now two things 00:17:40
technology that's developed to help people who are not well later becomes a luxury,
And so that allows now two things 00:17:44
potentially, down the line, in genetic modification.
And so that allows now two things 00:17:48
So we're starting off first with trying to heal or detect and manipulate
And so that allows now two things 00:17:57
early-onset signs of something particular, maybe even just in the embryo and
And so that allows now two things 00:18:02
adjusting the cells early on to prevent disease later on.
And so that allows now two things 00:18:07
Right.
And so that allows now two things 00:18:08
So that's something that we're using for people who are unwell.
And so that allows now two things 00:18:11
That's what the doctor said.
And so that allows now two things 00:18:12
And then later it can become something that's a luxury tool.
And so that allows now two things 00:18:16
Right?
And so that allows now two things 00:18:16
And that's what people's biggest fears are.
And so that allows now two things 00:18:18
And I did love that he talked about
And so that allows now two things 00:18:19
regulation around designer babies and making a baby with
And so that allows now two things 00:18:24
a certain color eye and s certain ability to play tennis or something like that.
And so that allows now two things 00:18:29
He really knew.
And so that allows now two things 00:18:31
And he has very strong thoughts about that not being where this goes.
And so that allows now two things 00:18:34
Right. And, you know, I came into the
And so that allows now two things 00:18:36
conversation a little pessimistic about cancer and other things that ail the human
And so that allows now two things 00:18:42
species and really kind of keeps people in unwell space, like, just sick sometimes.
And so that allows now two things 00:18:48
But some of the details that he gave left me optimistic.
And so that allows now two things 00:18:52
I'm like, maybe we can start to move towards an actual cure for cancer and an
And so that allows now two things 00:18:58
actual answer to these really hard-hitting diseases.
And so that allows now two things 00:19:03
Yeah. It sounds like molecular medicine and gene
And so that allows now two things 00:19:06
editing are much more multifaceted than we could have ever imagined.
And so that allows now two things 00:19:10
Yeah. Let's switch gears a moment.
And so that allows now two things 00:19:13
Okay, time for a Body of Knowledge segment.
And so that allows now two things 00:19:15
In this segment, we're going to discuss
And so that allows now two things 00:19:18
the topic of personalized health and genetics in an open-form discussion.
And so that allows now two things 00:19:22
We're going to be throwing ideas, asking
And so that allows now two things 00:19:24
questions with the chief bioscientist at the Franklin Institute, Dr.
And so that allows now two things 00:19:29
Jayatri Das.
And so that allows now two things 00:19:30
Welcome, Jayatri.
And so that allows now two things 00:19:32
Okay, so we are back with Jayatri, and we
And so that allows now two things 00:19:34
are talking about personalized health and genetics.
And so that allows now two things 00:19:37
What does that make you think of?
And so that allows now two things 00:19:39
I'm going to ask you guys a question. First is, like, when you think about your
And so that allows now two things 00:19:43
DNA and who you are, what connection do you see between them?
And so that allows now two things 00:19:47
I think of a long line of creative people,
And so that allows now two things 00:19:50
and I'm super-creative, and I can't turn it off.
And so that allows now two things 00:19:54
And sometimes I love that about myself.
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And other times I'm like, oh, my God, stop making everything into a song.
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But that's kind of my connection. I see a lot of creativity.
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I see a lot of pride.
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I love the fact that you thought really about thinking back about your family.
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It's not just about physical traits, right?
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What you end up is more about...
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Well, noses.
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My family has big noses. Big noses.
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What about you, Angelica?
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I did think physical.
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Okay, so I'm Italian, so I'm like...hairy.
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I look at all the photos, and I'm like, you guys are all hairy!
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Like, it's just the way it is, right?
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We're all hairy.
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And I think of heart stuff has come up in
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my family or like, my grandma did have brain cancer.
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So I do think of those things, but
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generally I love to look at my family, and I can just see how we all look similar.
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And I think part of why people love having kids, too, is to see this version of
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themselves, of their personal health and their genetics growing.
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I think that that's a fascinating part of human life and family.
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Well, I think the two elements that you
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each brought to that conversation kind of illustrate the power of why we want to
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take a more personalized approach to health and medicine.
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Because, Angelica, you're absolutely right that there is so much of the DNA that
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shapes our physical appearance and our health, but not entirely.
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If anybody ever told you that whether or
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not you can roll your tongue is based on your genetics, that's a myth.
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Wow. Have you ever heard of any of those?
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I haven't thought about it in that way, but yeah, right.
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Like, speech and capabilities.
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If your dad can play tennis, can you? Right.
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So a lot of those traits are much, much more complex than being able to boil it
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down to like, oh, you have a gene that tells you whether you can roll your tongue
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or you have a gene that makes you creative.
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That's not real.
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There are some diseases that are caused by single changes in DNA.
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Turns out earwax is also affected by a single gene.
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It's one of my favorite examples, whether your ear wax is wet or dry.
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Whoa. Wow.
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What are yours? It comes down to one gene?
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Yeah. What are yours?
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Is it wet? That was a weird question.
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Sorry.
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That's a little personal. Your ear wax, sorry.
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You know what? It's what I've seen.
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So it's part of my personalized health and genetics and me and my friends and family.
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That's fascinating. Wow.
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Right. And so where that level of genetics comes
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into play is thinking about whether medicine or some sort of behavioral
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treatment, whether your genetic background will respond to that.
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Right? Because all of our genes are different.
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And sometimes that background makes a difference in whether or not your body
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will respond to one medicine or another medicine.
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You mentioned some things that were not necessarily true, like rolling the Rs and
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being creative and so on and so forth. Are there some things that are actually
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understood to be passed along dynamic in genes?
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So, aside from a few diseases and then the
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earwax trait, most things are not only influenced by a whole number of different
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genes, but also very much from your environment.
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Right? And this kind of gets, Bey, at what you
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brought up, this being in a creative environment from a creative family. You
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see that helping you become a creative person as well.
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And so where we're looking now in terms of what's possible with health and genetics
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and things like that is thinking about what we know about how our genes and the
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environment actually interact with each other.
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Genes don't necessarily make up who you are, but they can be very important in
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thinking about how to design the most effective treatment for you.
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Right.
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My aunt went through this.
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She passed away from lung cancer several years ago.
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But part of her treatment was actually looking at the genetics of her cancer and
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thinking about, okay, which drugs are best suited for her specific cancer.
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And that's the power of medicine that we didn't have just a few decades ago.
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Yes. It feels like luxury.
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It does. It feels like luxury medicine, where
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we're going to look at you and we're going to help you -- not just, we're not going
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to just give you what works on most people.
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We're going to look at what's going on with you.
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And that's so important as we realize the genetic diversity among people.
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Right.
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That we can't just take these shortcuts like a social construct of race, for
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instance, to make those assumptions about what's going to work.
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That's so true.
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Okay, we're going to move into our Body of
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Knowledge auto-fill segment where we turn to the Internet to see what people are
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asking about personalized health and genetics.
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These are some of the most popular questions people are asking the Internet.
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So we're going to get into some of the
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questions that people have asked. "Is personalized healthcare legit?"
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Yeah, definitely, for sure.
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I think where that term...
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I think there's a reason that we're kind
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of moving from "personalized medicine" to "precision medicine" is to be a little bit
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more intentional about what personalized means, because I feel like it's not like
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somebody just monograms your medicine or something like that!
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Right?
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That would be cool.
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I would buy that.
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Is precision medicine the future of healthcare?
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There are some complexities around that
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question that we don't know the answer to yet, because some of it is very much in
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terms of the theory versus the practicality of it.
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If we could design everything to
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everybody's particular genome, how much of a difference would that make?
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I don't know that we know that yet.
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And there's also a question of how expensive is it, right?
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The realities of health care in the world that we live in?
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Definitely. It seems expensive.
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I hope everyone gets access to it eventually.
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Oh, this is a cool question, and I'm glad
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people are asking this : "is my DNA unique?"
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Well, are you an identical twin?
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I'm not. Are you guys?
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No, I am not.
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I don't know why I said it like that.
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You had to think about it for a minute.
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No, I am not an identical twin.
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Do identical twins have exact same DNA?
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So their DNA sequence is exactly the same when they're born.
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But what's cool is that even identical
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twins, they're not completely identical, right?
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And part of what we've learned over the
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last few decades is that there are ways that our genes are turned on and off in
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different ways that don't just depend on the actual sequence of letters.
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One of the simplest examples is that even
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though identical twins have the same genome, their fingerprints are different.
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Right. Wow.
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Because there are so many other factors,
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environmental factors that affect how those genes are turned off and on.
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Even different parts of the body can have
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genes turned off and on in different ways at different times.
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For most of us, our DNA is unique.
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But even among identical twins, there are
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differences in terms of how you go from your DNA to who you are.
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And I have a bit of a silly question, I
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guess. Does your DNA and genetics change as you grow in age and develop different
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experiences and travel and find a favorite color and eat some food and make a song
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and all these different things with your experiences? Does your DNA change?
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So, for a lot of those experiences, that's not going to affect your DNA.
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Is it changing your brain?
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Absolutely. Okay.
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But your body does accumulate mutations in your DNA just over time.
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Like every time your body makes a new copy
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of DNA, there's a possibility of making a mistake.
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Okay.
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And sometimes there are environmental factors, like the sun:
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UV rays can create mutations in your DNA that can lead to things like skin cancer.
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Okay.
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How often does your body make a new copy of DNA?
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Oh, man. All the time.
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I didn't know that. That's amazing.
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So it's constantly making new DNA?
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Yes. Fascinating.
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Yeah. We think of ourselves as kind of like...
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Stagnant. Done?
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It's over!
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Yeah, y ou're making new, you're replacing your
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body's cells all the time and getting rid of all the dead ones.
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Wow. Fascinating.
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I love that.
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Oh, I love this question.
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Okay. "Are my genetics good?"
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Oof! There's another value question!
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They aight.
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If you have to ask, Bey, they might not be.
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No, I'm just kidding. If you're looking at the mirror and you're going, is this good?
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I think we all feel that way.
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There's some social pressure there.
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There is for sure. And the last one is: "is my DNA in a database?"
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So that's a really good question because a
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lot of people choose to put their DNA in a database.
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If you've gotten your
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23andMe or Ancestry.com, then y eah, your DNA is in their database.
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Low-key, I feel like Angelica put that question in there.
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That's right up my alley! Right?
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Yeah.
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I will say, I didn't know when I did 23andMe.
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I didn't read the paperwork and know that it's now in a database.
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It's one of those things. I hate fine print.
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I will accept it, yes, it is fine print, but life ultimately goes on.
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Hi, this is Angelica Pasquini from So Curious.
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You know what?
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We love making this show, OK? B ut sometimes there are great fits.
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We just can't fit them into the episode.
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So we put together a bunch of great bonus
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content and you can find that available at beyond fi.edu.
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Thanks so much, Jayatri, and thank you so
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much for tuning in to this episode of So Curious.
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This podcast is part of The Franklin Institute.
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The Franklin Institute is a science museum located in Philadelphia.
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The Franklin Institute's mission is to
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inspire a passion for learning about science and technology.
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For more information on everything about
And so that allows now two things 00:30:01
The Franklin Institute, visit fi.edu. This podcast is produced by Radio Kismet.
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Radio Kismet is Philadelphia's premier
And so that allows now two things 00:30:10
podcast network for businesses looking to develop their own branded podcast content.
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Check them out at radiokismet.com.
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There's a lot of people who make this podcast happen.
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Thanks to the producers Joy Montefusco and
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Jayatri Das. Our managing producer, Emily Charash.
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Our operations head, Christopher Plant.
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Our associate producer, Liliana Green.
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Our audio team, Christian Cedarlund,
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Goldie Bingley, Lauren DeLuca and Brad Florent.
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Our development Producer, Opeola Bukola.
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Our science Writer, Kira Bayette and our Graphic Designer Emma Sagar.
