We all have memories closely tied to music in our life – but why are those connections so strong?
In today’s episode of So Curious, Bey and Kirsten look to get to the bottom of this question. First, the two sit down with memory expert Dr. Andrew Budson to learn how memory works in the brain, and the many ways music interacts with that. Then, they speak with head of Northern Illinois University’s Marketing program, Dr. Vijaykumar Krishnan Palghat, to learn about sonic logos and the surprising ways music and sound is used in the world of branding. From music as treatment for Alzheimer’s disease, to why we can all sing the Nokia ringtone long after the brand disapeared, we’re digging deep into why music makes us remember.
Links for Today’s Episode:
- Learn more about Dr. Andrew Budson, and check out his new book, Why We Forget and How to Remember Better: The Science Behind Memory
- Check out this CBS Sunday Morning feature on Glenn Campbell’s final tour, where he was performing late into his battle with Alzheimer’s disease.
- Learn more about Dr. Vijay Krishnan and his sonic branding research
- Check out the full clip of Indian Classical violin used in the episode.
Transcript
Hey, I'm the Bul Bey.
Speaker:And I'm Kirsten Michelle Cills.
Speaker:And this is So Curious, a podcast presented by The Franklin Institute.
Speaker:And this season is all about the science of music.
Speaker:And today we are investigating the impact that music can have on our memories.
Speaker:First, we'll be sending down with memory expert Dr.
Speaker:Andrew Budson to learn how memory works in
Speaker:our brain, and how music interacts with all of that.
Speaker:And then we're going to be joined by Dr.
Speaker:Vijay Krishnan to tell us about his research into sonic branding, and why
Speaker:music and sounds are so effective as forms of marketing.
Speaker:Yeah Kirsten, do you have any particular
Speaker:strong memories associated with a particular song?
Speaker:Let's see, marketing wise, I'm going to say...
Speaker:This is deep into the recesses.
Speaker:Do you remember that commercial?
Speaker:Those plates that looked like animals and they were called Zoo Pals.
Speaker:Oink, oink, Zoo Pals! Buzz, buzz, Zoo Pals! Quack, quack, Zoo Pals! Zoo Pals make eating fun!
Speaker:I was singing this song, like, a week ago today.
Speaker:I sing it all the time.
Speaker:I haven't heard it in years, I mean like decades, and I still sing it
Speaker:as an adult now, I think it means that it made a pretty big effect on my memory.
Speaker:What's yours? Man...
Speaker:I feel like you've said Steve Wonder with your mom.
Speaker:Absolutely. Steve Wonder, Miriam Makeba.
Speaker:I remember being in the back seat of my
Speaker:older brother's car playing Super Cat way too loud.
Speaker:I probably should have not been sitting next to loud speakers.
Speaker:Uh huh! So to help us figure out why those songs
Speaker:are linked to our memories, we are now joined by Dr.
Speaker:Andrew Budson. Dr.
Speaker:Budson, welcome to So Curious!
Speaker:How's it going, Andrew? Going very well!
Speaker:Nice. We're so happy to have you.
Speaker:Can you introduce yourself and tell the world what it is you do?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:So, I'm Andrew Budson, and after college, I went to Harvard Medical School,
Speaker:and then I did a residency in neurology, so all things related to the brain.
Speaker:But what I really wanted to get at was the mind.
Speaker:And so I did a fellowship in cognitive behavioral neurology.
Speaker:And so I spend my days caring for people with brain disorders, particularly memory
Speaker:disorders, things like Alzheimer's disease, dementia, things like that.
Speaker:And I do research on trying to help people with Alzheimer's remember things better.
Speaker:And I have explored if you can use music
Speaker:to help people with Alzheimer's remember things better.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:And so, can you explain how memory works in the brain?
Speaker:One of the interesting things about memory is we actually have a couple of different
Speaker:memory systems that we use to remember different types of information.
Speaker:So we use one type of memory system to remember episodes of our lives,
Speaker:like what you had for dinner yesterday, or when your last birthday was.
Speaker:You're using your episodic memory system.
Speaker:But if we are going to remember how to
Speaker:play a musical instrument, whether it's the recorder or the guitar or the piano,
Speaker:we're actually using a type of memory called procedural memory.
Speaker:And that's memory that helps us to be able
Speaker:to learn skills and habits and algorithms and things like that.
Speaker:And one of the things that I think is very interesting about individuals with
Speaker:Alzheimer's disease, is that Alzheimer's attacks parts of the brain that are
Speaker:critical for episodic memory, but it leaves relatively preserved
Speaker:the parts of the brain that's involved with procedural memory.
Speaker:And this is one of the reasons that many people with Alzheimer's can still play the
Speaker:piano, but they can't remember their grandchildren's names.
Speaker:Can you walk us through how the quality of life is affected?
Speaker:Can you still have a good quality of life
Speaker:if you don't have the episodic memory, but you still have all the procedural stuff?
Speaker:You can play the guitar, you can cook a
Speaker:recipe, but you just don't know the people that taught it to you?
Speaker:Absolutely. So if you are in a situation where your
Speaker:episodic memory is not working properly, you will have some difficulty
Speaker:in being able to understand, for example, what's going on in the world, current
Speaker:events, and things like that, because you'll have trouble remembering them.
Speaker:But you can still talk about things that may have occurred in the past.
Speaker:Things that occurred in the past have
Speaker:already gone through this process called consolidation.
Speaker:Consolidation is the process that we take, sort of, short term temporary
Speaker:memories and turn them into permanent memories.
Speaker:And that's one of the reasons that
Speaker:patients with Alzheimer's disease can still pull things up from their childhood.
Speaker:And in order to consolidate our memories, we need to sleep.
Speaker:And so it's very important for all your
Speaker:listeners out there to get good night's sleep every night because that's how our
Speaker:memories can stick around forever. So, one can have a good quality of life even if
Speaker:your memory for short term events, for recent events, isn't working well.
Speaker:It basically means you're in the here and now.
Speaker:Somebody with Alzheimer's can participate
Speaker:in any sort of a game or an activity that doesn't require memory.
Speaker:So for example, doing things like puzzles or having a conversation or playing music.
Speaker:Somebody who already knows how to play music can
Speaker:continue to play different songs that they know and really enjoy doing that.
Speaker:Glenn Campbell, in fact, the musician, guitar player, was able to play piano and
Speaker:even give concerts quite far into his own bout with Alzheimer's disease.
Speaker:I want to focus on that for a second,
Speaker:because that's a great segue into you using music as treatment.
Speaker:Can you talk to us, like, how does memory get tied into music?
Speaker:And how does music work as treatment for
Speaker:pulling back memories and making things a little bit more clear for people?
Speaker:When there's a piece of music, it really activates almost the entire brain.
Speaker:When you're listening to a song, your left hemisphere is paying attention to the
Speaker:words that are coming in from that song, the lyrics.
Speaker:The right hemisphere is paying attention to the melodies, the motor movement part
Speaker:of your brain, that's paying attention to that beat and that rhythm, which is why
Speaker:people often clap their hands or tap their feet.
Speaker:So we are able to reach individuals with
Speaker:Alzheimer's and other types of dementia when we might not have been able to reach
Speaker:them in other ways by activating the whole brain through music.
Speaker:I'm curious if there's a parallel between...
Speaker:You mentioned understanding procedures and things like that.
Speaker:I know there's grandmas that know recipes from memory.
Speaker:They don't even need to read it or anything like that.
Speaker:And does music work the same way, knowing how to play or enjoy music?
Speaker:Is that an accurate parallel?
Speaker:I think it's a great analogy.
Speaker:And recipes also use large areas of the brain.
Speaker:One component is a third type of memory
Speaker:that we haven't talked about so far, which we call semantic memory.
Speaker:The word semantic simply means meaning.
Speaker:When you have a fact, just something you know that's not connected with any
Speaker:specific episode of your life, we call it a semantic memory.
Speaker:For example, we all know who Harriet
Speaker:Tubman is, and we all know what temperature water boils at.
Speaker:Those are facts and information that aren't tied to anything in particular.
Speaker:A recipe is part fact.
Speaker:We know the ingredients, we know the
Speaker:order, but a recipe is also action and movement, right?
Speaker:Because we have to be stirring, chopping, baking.
Speaker:It's doing all these other activities as well.
Speaker:And I think one reason that recipes can be remembered so well is it's
Speaker:not just the fact, but it's the fact plus the action.
Speaker:And so this is also going to help that
Speaker:memory stick around a little bit stronger, just like music.
Speaker:Why is using songs so helpful for learning?
Speaker:Is it just the ear worm thing that just gets stuck in your brain?
Speaker:Yeah, it is a way that you can build on
Speaker:multiple memory systems to really cement information in our brain.
Speaker:And it does something automatically that
Speaker:is so useful, which is it chains bit of information together.
Speaker:So you know what happens first and second and third through the melody.
Speaker:And that's one of the reasons it's so helpful.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:So I have a bit of a big question to throw at you.
Speaker:Can you talk to us about how and why we forget, and maybe coach us
Speaker:on what relationship we should establish with our own memory?
Speaker:I guess the back part of that question is,
Speaker:how does music specifically allow us to catalog memory?
Speaker:How does that work?
Speaker:I'm going to tackle the first part of the question first.
Speaker:It's actually a wonderful question, why we forget.
Speaker:It's the first part of the title of a new book that I wrote with a colleague that
Speaker:just came out called Why We Forget and How to Remember Better.
Speaker:And if you think about it, memory is sort of an interesting thing.
Speaker:Like, why is it that we have memory?
Speaker:Why is it important to remember things?
Speaker:I would imagine it helps you better interact with the environment around you?
Speaker:It keeps you safe? Exactly.
Speaker:So memory is important because it helps us understand
Speaker:what's going on now, and it helps us to plan for the future.
Speaker:And sometimes flexibly, creatively imagine
Speaker:different ways that things could occur in the future and use the information from
Speaker:our memory to help one future occur preferentially over another.
Speaker:And because of that, it's not actually important to remember every single thing
Speaker:verbatim, exactly how it happened in the past.
Speaker:It's much better to understand the core essence, or the gist, the general gestalt
Speaker:of the way things happened or the way things generally happened.
Speaker:The other reason it's important to forget things is, we want to remember the things
Speaker:that are important and meaningful to us because those are the things that are
Speaker:going to help us to understand what's going on now and plan for the future.
Speaker:So if somebody says to you, "Hey,
Speaker:what's a great restaurant to go to for lunch?" You don't want to have to be
Speaker:thinking of every lunch you've ever had in your entire life, right?
Speaker:You want just the really good ones to stick out in your mind.
Speaker:So our brain is actually really good at
Speaker:forgetting those lunches that aren't important.
Speaker:And it helps us to preferentially keep just the ones that are outstanding.
Speaker:I imagine that you are familiar with this quote, because it's so much within your
Speaker:work, but there's this quote from Maya Angelou.
Speaker:The gist of it is, people are not going to remember what you said or what you did,
Speaker:they're only going to remember how you made them feel.
Speaker:Yeah. And I think that's a perfect segue to get
Speaker:back to your other question, Bey, which is, how does music fit into all this?
Speaker:A lot of it does have to do with the way that music makes us feel.
Speaker:Because in fact, when we're remembering
Speaker:any type of information, we are actively constructing our own narrative
Speaker:that goes with whatever it is that we're experiencing.
Speaker:Music can make us feel happy.
Speaker:It can make us feel sad.
Speaker:It really creates a feeling.
Speaker:And when we have memories that are charged with emotions, that's another thing that
Speaker:really helps us to keep those memories for a very long time.
Speaker:It's insane how powerful - I know that's the name of this season.
Speaker:We're going to keep learning about this, but we just keep having our minds blown.
Speaker:Thank you so much for coming on the So Curious podcast.
Speaker:Okay, thanks so much. Thanks!
Speaker:Thank you so much, Dr.
Speaker:Budson, for coming on the show. That was awesome.
Speaker:Now to help us explore how brands use
Speaker:music and sound to make us remember things, we are joined by Dr.
Speaker:Vijay Krishnan.
Speaker:Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker:Vijay, how are you?
Speaker:You're so welcome, thank you for having me on your show!
Speaker:Of course. Yeah.
Speaker:So can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do?
Speaker:Sure thing. I come from India originally.
Speaker:I came to US in the year 2005 to
Speaker:first earn a PhD in marketing and business administration.
Speaker:And I started out as a tenured track
Speaker:professor with Northern Illinois University.
Speaker:And by and by, I'm the chair of the department now.
Speaker:That's my second avatar.
Speaker:In my first avatar, I was in India, in the
Speaker:Indian industry/corporate world for many years after my MBA in engineering.
Speaker:But I grew up in a musical family. So, I'm a fifth generation musician.
Speaker:I play the Indian classical music on the violin.
Speaker:It's not even held this way. It's held another way.
Speaker:The whole stance and everything is different.
Speaker:But I saw when I was five, I'm 61, music has been with me forever.
Speaker:(Indian classical violin plays)Dr.
Speaker:Vijay, already impressed.
Speaker:You said fifth generation?
Speaker:That's a musical family. Yeah!
Speaker:That's really, really musical. It is.
Speaker:So you do a lot of research into sonic branding.
Speaker:Can you explain what that actually is?
Speaker:I always say this, that you can shut your eyes, but you can never shut your ears.
Speaker:Sound is all pervading, it's always present.
Speaker:And although visual stimuli trumps sonic
Speaker:stimuli, sonic stimuli always gets your attention.
Speaker:The ambulance or the sirens or the calling bells or what have you, notifications.
Speaker:So it's a great way to brand using sound.
Speaker:Sound has been used to brand,
Speaker:create attention and awareness, and in fact liking, for many brands and more
Speaker:generally in consumer behavior and in the marketing domain.
Speaker:For instance, there are studies that show
Speaker:how in a mall, if you play slow music, people walk slower and shop longer.
Speaker:And if you play fast music in a fast food restaurant, people will eat out and cut
Speaker:out faster, so the tables will turn around faster.
Speaker:So there's a direct business implication for those kinds of things.
Speaker:Kirsten and I locked eyes, like "What!" You can see our jaws dropped!
Speaker:Research in this area has expanded to
Speaker:maximize, optimize consumer behavior in many ways, in many different interfaces.
Speaker:And the sonic interface has multiplied.
Speaker:Given that we are surrounded by car radio,
Speaker:all kinds of wireless devices, Bluetooth, and what have you,
Speaker:you are more accessible on your ears than with your eyes, some would say.
Speaker:I said, we can't close our ears. So
Speaker:that's broadly about sound and its role in communication.
Speaker:Now, within that, there are different different ideas.
Speaker:For example, there's phonetic symbolism.
Speaker:What's phonetic symbolism, like, for instance, the short vowels or frontal
Speaker:vowels like R, E, versus the rear vowels, they have some implications.
Speaker:The short vowels like " frish" versus "frosh".
Speaker:There's actually a study done to see if
Speaker:there is a fictitious brand of ice cream named "Frish" versus "Frosh".
Speaker:Now "Frosh" seems richer, because it's a longer vowel sound than "Frish".
Speaker:They are both hypothetical brand names for
Speaker:ice creams, like freeze and frish and so on.
Speaker:The other idea on phonetic symbolism is creating "earcons", just like icons.
Speaker:What do I mean by earcons?
Speaker:You're downloading a file and you can map
Speaker:it to the sound of a bottle filling with water.
Speaker:So it
Speaker:goes bub-bub-bub-bub-bub-bub-bub, download complete, for example.
Speaker:Right? So it is indicative of things like that.
Speaker:You can use sound in multiple ways.
Speaker:Also, it makes for a fluent cognitive experience.
Speaker:For example, this phone right here, every time I take a photo, it goes -
Speaker:(camera shutter sound effect) Making a shutter sound, right?
Speaker:There's no shutter in this digital camera.
Speaker:It just makes the sound, so it gives you auditory feedback.
Speaker:I just took a photo, it came out all right.
Speaker:Or when you use Kindle and you flip the page, it rustles.
Speaker:(page turning sound effect)
Speaker:And similarly, I don't know if you have ever driven an electric car.
Speaker:It just creeps in on you.
Speaker:It's a spooky experience.
Speaker:The transport authorities now are
Speaker:considering including some artificial sounds.
Speaker:So you know, if you're at a crossing, you want an auditory sound to come to you
Speaker:saying, a car is approaching, because electric cars don't make that sound.
Speaker:Oh, my gosh. Right.
Speaker:So these are all situations where sound plays a big role.
Speaker:Those are some broad ideas just on sound.
Speaker:So when you come to, for example a sonic logo - I call it a sogoo to rhyme with a
Speaker:logo - a sogoo is like a short five to six seconds, the McDonald or the
Speaker:Nokia - da da da da da - or the Intel -da, da da da da -
Speaker:all these sounds, and there's a science to that as well.
Speaker:For example, it could be mapped on the number of syllables.
Speaker:"Nationwide is on your side." So that's seven, right?
Speaker:So it makes for good mnemonic as a memory device.
Speaker:You could be mapping it on the basis of
Speaker:number of syllabus or number of letters like N, O, K, I, A.
Speaker:That was Nokia.
Speaker:It didn't help them much, though, because they didn't move to the smartphone era!
Speaker:That's awesome. I'm blown away.
Speaker:That's a great.
Speaker:So, the difference between a sonic logo and a jingle is the length, really?
Speaker:It's the length.
Speaker:It's a reminder, through the corner of your ear, so to say.
Speaker:You don't know it exists, but it provides you reassurance and recognition.
Speaker:Mmmm, like I was thinking
Speaker:NBC - bah bah bah - and then the current Netflix one is just the...
Speaker:Duh duhn!
Speaker:Right yeah - duh durh - that's all it is!
Speaker:It sounds so average.
Speaker:If you played it for prior to Netflix
Speaker:adopting that, I would have just been like, okay, I would never remember that.
Speaker:If I hear it now in the wild, I'm like, "Who's playing Netflix!"
Speaker:One hundred percent! So Dr.
Speaker:Vijay, so if we wanted to create a sound logo for So Curious, for this podcast,
Speaker:walk us through how we would make the best possible logo according to your research?
Speaker:It's an interesting question.
Speaker:A sound logo may have multiple tones, right?
Speaker:Let's say if it has five tones, like, (sings Intel sogo), 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
Speaker:It's easier to remember, recall, if the sogoo is short.
Speaker:However, a short sogo can also be mistaken for a knockoff brand because you can
Speaker:easily get confused if you have fewer tones.
Speaker:On the other hand, if you have too many tones, it's difficult to remember and
Speaker:recall, but it provides uniqueness and distinctiveness to your brand.
Speaker:I call this true recognition versus false recognition tension.
Speaker:So there's a trade off.
Speaker:To there's a sweet spot of about six tones, my research shows, that it is
Speaker:harder to copy, but it is also distinctive enough.
Speaker:In my research, I show, for example, that
Speaker:if something is easy to process - and this is a scientific psychological
Speaker:concept is that, if something is easy to process, then we tend to like it.
Speaker:We tend to imbue it with positive attributes.
Speaker:In the same way, if something is clear
Speaker:auditorily, fewer tones, (singing NBC) is easier to recognize.
Speaker:But if I do just a little transposition, dah dah dah,
Speaker:that's the tone you hear in Airbus when you want to call for water - dah dah dah
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Dah dah dah - It's NBC.
Speaker:And then the shorter version of that is
Speaker:dah-dah, sometimes the shorter version will play with only two tones, which is to
Speaker:say, seat belt sign has come off or something.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Yeah, I'm just - I was legit just like thinking, Oh, wow.
Speaker:That's crazy! So what would So Curious, sound like?
Speaker:I feel like that's, what's that, four sylables?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Although I guess it doesn't have to be the sylables of the title, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it can be conceptually hanging together.
Speaker:So Curious is something about evoking curiosity.
Speaker:So for example,
Speaker:(singing descending tones) it's very familiar.
Speaker:But if I sing the same thing in minor, (singing descending tones in a minor key)
Speaker:suddenly it became very different, and it makes you wonder, and that is curious.
Speaker:So that is the curiosity idea.
Speaker:It looks similar to something I've heard
Speaker:before, but it's not quite what's going on.
Speaker:That's an example of conceptual fluency.
Speaker:I talked about fluency.
Speaker:There are two kinds of fluency.
Speaker:One is the perceptual fluency, which is
Speaker:you see something and it looks like and behaves like what you think it should.
Speaker:A horse looks like a horse.
Speaker:That is perceptual fluency.
Speaker:Conceptual fluency would be if
Speaker:you see the word "horse" and then the word "stable" comes to you quite smoothly.
Speaker:If I say, "The stormy river rocked the..." you're not going to say Wilson volleyball,
Speaker:it's "rocked the boat." That's what you're going to say.
Speaker:So, conceptually, some things hang together.
Speaker:So similarly, you could think of perceptual fluency, which is if I am so
Speaker:-cur-i-ous, so that's four syllabus for four tones that's percept similar.
Speaker:Our conceptual similarity would be the music is curious.
Speaker:It's interesting to hear how easily
Speaker:affected we are by this, especially when it comes to branding and logos.
Speaker:Live, everyone likes to think we're all
Speaker:the exception and we don't fall for this stuff.
Speaker:But no, it's so ingrained into us! Absolutely.
Speaker:I wanted to ask, are there any ethical concerns marketers should consider when
Speaker:using music to affect customers' behaviors?
Speaker:I'd say creating false alarms may not be good.
Speaker:For example, some things like a police
Speaker:siren or ambulance tone and things like that are earmarked for a specific purpose.
Speaker:So we shouldn't use them frivolously.
Speaker:So this brings me to my current research, where there are 12 tones.
Speaker:Now, if you pick any seven tones, you get a scale.
Speaker:You get, for example, the major scale is
Speaker:"do re me fa so la ti do." But if you raise the fourth tone, "do re
Speaker:me fa so la ti do," it becomes a Lydian scale.
Speaker:There are many scales like that. So, it
Speaker:turns out, the 32 different scales you can get.
Speaker:Some of these scales can be quite haunting.
Speaker:I'll
Speaker:hum one. (Vijay hums a haunting scale) It can be disturbing, perhaps.
Speaker:However, lots of times brands need to evoke negative emotions.
Speaker:For instance, if you're going to advertise
Speaker:cancer from smoking, then you have to scare people.
Speaker:What will happen?
Speaker:Or if you're, let us say, selling insurance, life insurance or anything like
Speaker:that, then you need to sell both fear and reassurance.
Speaker:So the fear is the problem and the reassurance is my brand.
Speaker:So you need both emotions to show up.
Speaker:Currently, I'm working on melodies that
Speaker:tease apart emotions like that, fear and peace, or disgust and satisfaction.
Speaker:Like, nobody wants dandruf.
Speaker:They hate dandruff, but they like Head and Shoulders.
Speaker:So you want to evoke both, or you want
Speaker:anger if it is Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
Speaker:You want some amount of anger, global
Speaker:warming, depending on what you're marketing.
Speaker:You want to glare at the person who is double bagging at the grocers.
Speaker:So all of that.
Speaker:So all these different kinds of of music can help engender those kinds of emotions,
Speaker:which then persuade the consumer to behave in ways that the brand marketer wants.
Speaker:Music is so powerful.
Speaker:Yeah, and I appreciate that.
Speaker:And a little bit of a comedic note,
Speaker:there's so many hip hop songs that include alarms, fire alarms, sirens.
Speaker:And I'm like, "Could you not do that, please?"
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Radio commercials that have car horns honking, I can't stand.
Speaker:Police sirens, I'm like, how is that legal?
Speaker:That's so scary when you're driving!
Speaker:I've had a couple of moments where I'm like, Is that an actual alarm?
Speaker:No, it's just a song playing, just the music.
Speaker:Yeah, really. Imagine you're driving car, listening to
Speaker:the car radio, and suddenly the ambulance sound comes.
Speaker:You might pull over, and it might be
Speaker:coming from the radio and not from behind you.
Speaker:Yeah, thank you so much, Vijay. This has been so...
Speaker:It's been a lot of fun!
Speaker:Yeah, this is really interesting work you're doing! Thank you for this.
Speaker:We hear a lot about the different parts of
Speaker:the science of music, but this is not one we have heard yet.
Speaker:Thank you. Yeah, so we have to come up with a sogo.
Speaker:Yeah, we'll have to come up with our sonic logo and get back to you!
Speaker:But thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker:We really appreciate it.
Speaker:Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker:And once again, thank you so much, Dr.
Speaker:Krishnan, for coming on to share your research with us.
Speaker:And based on what Dr.
Speaker:Krishnan told us, we here at So Curious actually developed our own sogo.
Speaker:Play it!
Speaker:(So Curious sogo plays)
Speaker:Oh,Isn't that so good? All right, play it again.
Speaker:(So Curious sogo plays)
Speaker:Every time you hear that little melody, you're going to think of So Curious, and
Speaker:you're going to think of Bey and Kirsten and Dr.
Speaker:Krishnan and all of the fun times we've had together.
Speaker:Yeah, play it one last time for good measure.
Speaker:(So Curious sogo plays) Now that we have harnessed the power of
Speaker:music to permanently stick So Curious into your brains, please be sure to join us
Speaker:next week when we learn all about the wonderful music of the animal kingdom.
Speaker:Some people call me an inter-species musician.
Speaker:I play music with whales and birds and bugs.
Speaker:Yeah, it's going to be a fun one.
Speaker:So be sure to subscribe to So Curious wherever you listen so you don't miss out.
Speaker:This podcast is made in partnership with
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Speaker:This podcast is produced by Amy Carson,
Speaker:the Franklin Institute's director of Digital Editorial is Joy Montefusco.
Speaker:Dr.
Speaker:Jayatri Das is the Franklin Institute's Chief Bio-Scientist, and Erin Armstrong
Speaker:runs marketing, communications, and digital media.
Speaker:Head of Operations is Christopher Plant.
Speaker:Our mix engineer is Justin Berger, and our audio editor is Lauren DeLuca.
Speaker:Our graphic designer is Emma Seeger, and I am Kirsten Michelle Cills.
Speaker:And I'm The Bul Bey. Thank you!
