Biohacking is SO many things! In this episode Angelica and Bey talk to two people on each end of the biohacking spectrum: biodesigner Ricky Solorzano and bodybuilder Scott Shunk. Later in the episode, our favorite chief bioscientist Dr. Jayatri Das is back!
Transcript
Hello and welcome to So Curious!, presented by the Franklin Institute.
Speaker:In this season, Human 2.0, we will be talking to scientists and non-scientists
Speaker:alike about technology, innovation, and the human experience.
Speaker:We're your hosts.
Speaker:I'm Angelica Pasquini.
Speaker:And I'm the Bul Bey.
Speaker:But you could just call me Bey.
Speaker:On today's episode, we're going to be talking about biohacking with bioengineer
Speaker:Ricky Solorzano and physique athlete Scott Shunk.
Speaker:Hacking the human experience
Speaker:is so funny to me, inherently, just the concept, it's comical.
Speaker:I mean, I guess it's been happening forever.
Speaker:People are like, "how do I..alright I've been doing this, this one
Speaker:way..?" It's human nature to want to figure out a faster route from A to B.
Speaker:That's what I always think about with hacking.
Speaker:How can I more quickly get what I want?
Speaker:Isn't that a classic question? Yeah.
Speaker:I think we all want to try to get to our destinations.
Speaker:And I think some of the people we'll be
Speaker:talking to, and some people in the world, I think they revel in the process
Speaker:and they are just trying to really make it as efficient...
Speaker:I think they have a bit of a long-term perspective, a long game at play.
Speaker:But yeah, we all want to cut those corners and be efficient.
Speaker:So, Angelica, what do you think biohacking is?
Speaker:It's a huge umbrella term. Yeah.
Speaker:Let's just start with the most far out one that scares everyone for fun.
Speaker:So it's that people turn themselves into
Speaker:cyborgs by embedding magnets, chips, computers, under their skin.
Speaker:So it's like people who want to put a little chip in their hand and then wave
Speaker:their hand across something and then get accessibility into a door.
Speaker:That's biohacking.
Speaker:Now, that's a no for me, dog.
Speaker:But I also think biohacking can be as
Speaker:simple as making bread by using cells to do so.
Speaker:I know that that's like a growing field in
Speaker:biohacking and then obviously biohacking your body, biohacking your sleep.
Speaker:In meditation, people are using these
Speaker:devices now that can actually show you when your nervous system is the calmest.
Speaker:And then that way you are in a sort of
Speaker:like a Theta space so that you could have a deeper meditation.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And I know we're going to be talking to people in the active athletic space.
Speaker:I've been in gyms and I've seen people
Speaker:sniff something right before they lift a piece of weight.
Speaker:And I'm like, I don't know what that is.
Speaker:Is that some kind of like chemical accelerant or something like that?
Speaker:What is it?
Speaker:If I saw somebody with a bunch of weight in front of them and they had to put
Speaker:something up their nose in order to lift it up, I would assume...
Speaker:This isn't something you need to do.
Speaker:This isn't something that you need to do! Right.
Speaker:Because if you have to sniff something up your nose, carry a bunch of weight around,
Speaker:just go do something that your body wants to do instead.
Speaker:Right. That's my opinion.
Speaker:Try the treadmill, maybe.
Speaker:Yeah. The elliptical...
Speaker:We've got a great lineup for today's episode.
Speaker:So let's kick off things with our first guest.
Speaker:Our first guest is Scott Shunk.
Speaker:Scott Schunk is a physique athlete and a model.
Speaker:Scott has perfected his own body down to a science and helps others do the same as a
Speaker:fitness and nutrition guru, and creator of Body Cult Fitness.
Speaker:Before committing himself to his body full-time, Scott worked as a
Speaker:consultant and was director of the Visualizing Cultures Project at MIT.
Speaker:Hi, Scott, can you introduce yourself?
Speaker:Hi, I'm Scott Shunk.
Speaker:I'm sort of a fitness and wellness guy, a
Speaker:bit of an Instagram and social media presence.
Speaker:And what I do is help people stay youthful and invigorated in their lives.
Speaker:So we want to ask you about your bodybuilding journey.
Speaker:If you just want to give us like a synopsis of your story.
Speaker:I've always been sort of fascinated by fitness and physique training, aesthetics
Speaker:in terms of bodybuilding and modeling, and these types of things.
Speaker:And I saw this series of photos called
Speaker:"Fred With Tires" that Herb Ritts had done.
Speaker:Simultaneously, that was when the Calvin
Speaker:Klein first underwear ad came out, the classic 80s underwear ad.
Speaker:What really was interesting in the 80s was gay men really sort of embraced the body
Speaker:and the physique that I found to be most fascinating.
Speaker:So growing up and seeing all these sort of these incredibly fit young men in
Speaker:Greenwich Village, along with the photographic and artistic representations
Speaker:that Herb Ritts had done, and then the modeling, what was
Speaker:working in advertising, it really led me at age 13, 14 to know what I wanted to do.
Speaker:And then I began my actual fitness journey at about 20.
Speaker:And let me see, I would have been 20 in 1988.
Speaker:And from there, it's been 34, 35 years of fitness: trying to understand
Speaker:supplementation, different workout regimens and routines, really being open
Speaker:and teachable to a lot of different things, doing a lot of research myself and
Speaker:just enmeshing myself in the culture and embracing it fully.
Speaker:Sort of what fitness is, and for me as a model (and an old dude model)...
Speaker:I love that term, "old dude model."
Speaker:Put it on LinkedIn!
Speaker:Really looking, keeping my skin really well put together.
Speaker:My skin is kind of one of my brands out in the modeling world because I have just a
Speaker:very youthful-looking appearance and skin for a guy my age.
Speaker:For sure! It's cool to hear.
Speaker:So essentially, like when you were a young kid, you had this artistic vision.
Speaker:And even I looked up "Fred With Tires."
Speaker:It's a beautiful series, and the photography is incredible.
Speaker:So it's like an artistic standpoint that you're coming from.
Speaker:Absolutely. And that's why when people say
Speaker:"bodybuilder," I embraced that term because I'm a bodybuilder.
Speaker:But that also is really more associated
Speaker:with these big giant guys that are running a lot of performance-enhancing drugs.
Speaker:It's a different aesthetic.
Speaker:I've always stayed completely natural.
Speaker:I've never used performance-enhancing drugs, hormones, what have you.
Speaker:I call what I do, I think I'm a "physique athlete" or an "aesthetic athlete."
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And Scott, you used to be a research director at MIT, but now you're a physique
Speaker:athlete, as you said, a fitness and nutrition coach and a model.
Speaker:These seem like two different worlds.
Speaker:What prompted you to make this change, and
Speaker:do you find any connections between your previous career and what you do now?
Speaker:Well, certainly the research component at MIT.
Speaker:I always worked in media growing up, and what I did at MIT was to direct a very
Speaker:large-scale media project at the Institute.
Speaker:Again, physical aesthetics, physique, has always been something I've done since my
Speaker:20s when I, through a series of life changes, ended up in Houston.
Speaker:The joke that I always tell people is I met a guy at a gala, a
Speaker:billionaire, and he was like, "what are you bringing in?" He said,
Speaker:[fake Texas accent] "well, son, you can either be smart or pretty here, but you
Speaker:can't be both." I guess I chose pretty for the second half of my life.
Speaker:[laughter]Oh my God, thank you for that.
Speaker:And the accent.
Speaker:Appreciate that.
Speaker:Doing the best I can.
Speaker:What kind of research did you do to start exploring this? And how did you find the
Speaker:practices that work for you? What advice would you give someone who's starting to
Speaker:train and has a vision for themselves ,sort of like what you do.
Speaker:Like anything in life, there's sort of a core series of tenants that will work for
Speaker:everyone in terms of embracing a fitness journey.
Speaker:And there are really three tenants to what we do in the sport.
Speaker:It's training, nutrition and recovery.
Speaker:So what I did initially was, like most
Speaker:kids, I'm 18, 20 years old when I started, and that was in the 80s and early 90s.
Speaker:And we had supplements like Brewer's yeast
Speaker:and amino acids, kind of hinky, ("hinky," meaning nonsense)
kind of supplements:Gainers Fuel, just tons of like basically coffee freamer and
kind of supplements:rice carbohydrates in a powder form of protein.
kind of supplements:[sarcastic] Sounds fun.
kind of supplements:So again, it was the beginning of
kind of supplements:understanding how do I enhance what I'm doing in the gym with my nutrition, and
kind of supplements:then the supplementation components and reading a ton of stuff, getting all the
kind of supplements:bodybuilding magazines that were available then, and just trying to understand as
kind of supplements:much as I could about what was I to do, how do I train?
kind of supplements:And it just takes a long time to do that.
kind of supplements:And everyone, when they begin their journey, no matter what age, when I'm
kind of supplements:taking someone in, I'm showing a lot of shortcuts and a lot of shorthand to get
kind of supplements:the results a lot more quickly and rapidly.
kind of supplements:But a lot of it is just really doing the work, getting in the gym, doing basic,
kind of supplements:straightforward, simple but effective exercises.
kind of supplements:You are eating a lot of lean protein.
kind of supplements:That's chicken, that's egg whites, that's
kind of supplements:some protein powders, lean cuts of red meat.
kind of supplements:If that's something you do. I don't eat a lot of red meat.
kind of supplements:You eat a lot of vegetables, clean vegetables, like sort of just raw.
kind of supplements:I eat a lot of raw broccoli, Brussels
kind of supplements:sprouts, beans, green beans, these kinds of things.
kind of supplements:And I don't eat many carbohydrates at all.
kind of supplements:That's kind of where guys like me live.
kind of supplements:That's clean eating.
kind of supplements:That means you're not eating processed foods.
kind of supplements:You're not having a cheat meal once a week.
kind of supplements:There's no alcohol.
kind of supplements:There's a lot of restriction.
kind of supplements:It's a lot of misery.
kind of supplements:And so can the human body be hacked? Are
kind of supplements:there concrete methods to gain concrete results in what you're doing?
kind of supplements:Absolutely. There are a myriad of shortcuts
kind of supplements:and sort of keys to the...I call it the keys to the kingdom.
kind of supplements:And it really has a lot to do with food timing.
kind of supplements:This game is all about hormones.
kind of supplements:And for a guy like me who's completely natural in my 50s,
kind of supplements:still not using any even hormone replacement therapy because that's...
kind of supplements:Guys around 35, 37 start going to the
kind of supplements:testosterone clinics and start just getting injectable testosterone.
kind of supplements:But I just game my hormones to keep my testosterone levels as high as possible.
kind of supplements:My cortisol levels as low as possible.
kind of supplements:My insulin, which is kind of the biggest
kind of supplements:hormone in the game, the most sensitive that I can, all the time.
kind of supplements:And I do that by sleeping eight to nine hours every day, by not
kind of supplements:having an incredibly stressed-out life, which drives my ex-wife to madness.
kind of supplements:And the way I eat.
kind of supplements:And I also use intermittent fasting.
kind of supplements:And I have almost for 35 years, I do intermittent fasting.
kind of supplements:It's interesting what you're saying
kind of supplements:because you're so aware of everything going on with your mind and body.
kind of supplements:It is a science and a lifestyle.
kind of supplements:And earlier I said like a work of art, it
kind of supplements:seems like your life is your work of art that you're curating.
kind of supplements:I'm very curious about endorphins, working out, your mood.
kind of supplements:And are you happy?
kind of supplements:There are days it's absolute misery to get through it.
kind of supplements:If I'm doing a 72-hour fast and I will do a 72-hour fast almost monthly.
kind of supplements:And there's a lot of reasons I do that.
kind of supplements:Autophagy is a term we throw around.
kind of supplements:Immunological resets.
kind of supplements:Also really just kind of cleaning my body up.
kind of supplements:But on those 72 hours, I can get pretty miserable.
kind of supplements:On days that I'm cutting in for a shoot....
kind of supplements:I just got back from Mexico on Tuesday and I had to cut in for a shoot.
kind of supplements:My Thanksgiving was chicken and broccoli,
kind of supplements:where everyone else is sitting there hammering pie.
kind of supplements:And I love pie!
kind of supplements:So there are days when you're hormonally gamed, you're beat up, and what you have
kind of supplements:to work through, or what I tell myself when I'm working with someone...
kind of supplements:I'm like, you need to kind of muscle through that.
kind of supplements:You need to move through that stuff.
kind of supplements:You accept it.
kind of supplements:You sort of put it where it needs to be.
kind of supplements:But you know that you are going for a longer result.
kind of supplements:I sit around 185 pounds. I'm six foot one.
kind of supplements:That's kind of my happy weight.
kind of supplements:I can go down to 181 when I want to be ridiculously, 2% body fat, lean.
kind of supplements:And I can go up to 190 and fluff up and be really buff and still have pretty abs.
kind of supplements:But for about three months a year I like to go up to about 200 to 210 pounds.
kind of supplements:That really gives my body and my mind the break, and it allows me to restart the
kind of supplements:process of chipping away at the "David." Chipping the David out.
kind of supplements:I love that. The artist is present.
kind of supplements:As you say, it is exactly that.
kind of supplements:It is a science and it is an art.
kind of supplements:There is no one way that anyone gets to
kind of supplements:the place they need to get to, and that's why the journey takes ...It should be
kind of supplements:enjoyed and should be looked at as a lifelong process.
kind of supplements:I learned things every year that I didn't know the year previously.
kind of supplements:I'm in better shape today than I was at 50, than I absolutely was at 35.
kind of supplements:I've always been lean.
kind of supplements:I've always been pretty ripped, other than
kind of supplements:the year my first child was born, but I've always kind of kept it together.
kind of supplements:So I learned something every year.
kind of supplements:And now as I age, it's a game of hormones.
kind of supplements:I love that you mentioned that. It looks different for everybody and everybody on
kind of supplements:their own journey individually, how do you use biohacking for your training, and in
kind of supplements:your opinion, what works and what doesn't work?
kind of supplements:The best piece of advice I can offer most
kind of supplements:people is intermittent fasting is the real deal.
kind of supplements:Biohacking is a new term.
kind of supplements:When I was at MIT, we called it life extension, but none of this stuff is new.
kind of supplements:So the biggest thing I can recommend in
kind of supplements:terms of a biohack for anyone is to really experiment with intermittent fasting.
kind of supplements:Start fasting at least 12 hours every day.
kind of supplements:Have your last meal at seven or whatever,
kind of supplements:and then don't eat again until seven or eight the next day.
kind of supplements:That's an easy thing to do for most people.
kind of supplements:The most important hormone you're going to play with in your body is your insulin.
kind of supplements:So what I always preach to people is insulin sensitivity.
kind of supplements:We want our insulin sensitivity as high as possible.
kind of supplements:Why is insulin the most important hormone
kind of supplements:in the body? Why is insulin the most important?
kind of supplements:No, that's an opinion. There, of course.
kind of supplements:Everything, of course, is an opinion! In your opinion, then?
kind of supplements:Yeah, my opinion is it's the most important hormone because it kind of
kind of supplements:governs a lot of the things that are most important to what I do.
kind of supplements:And so when you keep your insulin sensitivity high, as soon as you're
kind of supplements:putting foods into your body, carbohydrates, everything in your body
kind of supplements:runs on glycogen or glucose, carbohydrates, sugar, everything.
kind of supplements:Your body is fueled by blood sugar.
kind of supplements:So if you have tons of food in your system all the time, your body's like, oh, I
kind of supplements:don't need to use this because I've already got a high blood sugar level.
kind of supplements:So I'm going to put this into the storage.
kind of supplements:Here comes more calories.
kind of supplements:They're going to go into storage. Storage.
kind of supplements:Adipose tissue.
kind of supplements:Adipose tissue is a pretty name for fat.
kind of supplements:So by keeping your insulin sensitivity high, as soon as you put foods in your
kind of supplements:body, it's converting that to blood sugar, to energy.
kind of supplements:Right away it's being used.
kind of supplements:It's not in danger of being stored.
kind of supplements:The other big bio hack is to take the
kind of supplements:majority of your calories from protein sources.
kind of supplements:The primary thing I do is make sure that I'm getting 200 grams of protein a day.
kind of supplements:That's going to take 1200 to 1500 of my calories away.
kind of supplements:Again, I don't count my calories anymore.
kind of supplements:But when you start in this game, you should, just to begin to understand,
kind of supplements:because eventually you'll just get to where you know what you're doing.
kind of supplements:Once I get the protein in my body, then I
kind of supplements:can decide whether I want faster carbohydrates to encompass the residual
kind of supplements:calories that I need to get through my day.
kind of supplements:But make protein the primary source of
kind of supplements:your calories on any given day, the primary source of your meals, getting your
kind of supplements:carbs and your healthy fats in there as well as needed.
kind of supplements:And you're going to really keep your insulin sensitivity extraordinarily high,
kind of supplements:in addition to doing that, intermittent fast for minimally 12 hours.
kind of supplements:Wow.
kind of supplements:We learned so much. Yes.
kind of supplements:I'm taking it all in my mind.
kind of supplements:I'm like, I got to do a pushup.
kind of supplements:Yeah.
kind of supplements:I love this art form that you've taken on,
kind of supplements:and I think that your body is your work of art, and we really see and respect that.
kind of supplements:It's pretty cool. Thank you so much for sharing.
kind of supplements:Absolutely. It's been my pleasure.
kind of supplements:Reflection time, reflection time. Bodybuilder, huh?
kind of supplements:Yeah.
kind of supplements:I am somebody who has been in the weight room recently.
kind of supplements:So hearing all that was interesting and a little bit intimidating.
kind of supplements:I was like, I don't want to do that.
kind of supplements:I thought it was cool the way that he was
kind of supplements:an artist and his body was his work of art, and that was really his vision.
kind of supplements:And then also how deeply he clearly understood science.
kind of supplements:Hormones, metabolic rate, diet, down to every last calorie.
kind of supplements:Right. I think he was prioritizing hormones.
kind of supplements:I was like, wow, that one is more important than the other one.
kind of supplements:And he talked about the diet and the broccoli and the chicken.
kind of supplements:So biohacking is serious, real and intense.
kind of supplements:And he's someone who's on top of it.
kind of supplements:Well, I'm not sure if I love the social side of it.
kind of supplements:He was like, "this is pretty miserable,"
kind of supplements:but it was insightful, at least. But I still want to go out and have a beer.
kind of supplements:Yeah.
kind of supplements:I dig his honesty.
kind of supplements:There he was straight up like, you know,
kind of supplements:it's really miserable sometimes, but it's what he's clearly passionate about.
kind of supplements:First of all, he looked 30, maybe?
kind of supplements:He had a little glow to him, didn't he?
kind of supplements:Yes, he looked young.
kind of supplements:Yeah, yeah.
kind of supplements:I think he hacked the aging process.
kind of supplements:And I love how he just put a system around it.
kind of supplements:A lot of these things we already know sleep, work out, drink water, but he put a
kind of supplements:system in a regimen that was pretty strict around that.
kind of supplements:And so it's interesting how the body responds to systems, I guess.
kind of supplements:Yeah. And science.
kind of supplements:Straight up science.
kind of supplements:Hi, this is Angelica Pasquini from So Curious!
kind of supplements:Sign up for our newsletter to find out when the latest episodes are available,
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kind of supplements:Visit beyond fi.edu to sign up now.
kind of supplements:Literally, go do it right now.
kind of supplements:Okay, let's get into the bio-design side
kind of supplements:of biohacking. Hi, Ricky, can you introduce yourself?
kind of supplements:I'm currently the CEO and co-founder of
kind of supplements:Biorealize, and we are on a mission to make it easier to design with biology.
kind of supplements:Part of that entails being able to empower
kind of supplements:designers, really industrial designers, product designers, architectural
kind of supplements:designers, to understand how to integrate bio-design into their workflows.
kind of supplements:The world of biology is growing every day,
kind of supplements:and there's so much to learn, so much to understand and standards to create.
kind of supplements:And so all this really stems from...
kind of supplements:Consumers are starting to realize that we want to think more consciously about
kind of supplements:sustainability and the products that we buy.
kind of supplements:Right. So we think about, like, how can we buy
kind of supplements:things not just for their usage, but for their entire life cycle? So from start to
kind of supplements:finish, like, okay, we buy something, and then where does it go?
kind of supplements:So it sounds like sustainability is obviously very important to you.
kind of supplements:We're curious about your desire to bring biology and design closer together,
kind of supplements:obviously, through the lens of sustainability.
kind of supplements:Could you expand on what inspired you to
kind of supplements:found Biorealize, and trace your journey for us to where you are today?
kind of supplements:The founding happened some years ago by the co-founders, Karen and Orkin, who were
kind of supplements:professors of bio-design at the University of Pennsylvania.
kind of supplements:And they saw...
kind of supplements:It was really difficult for him to teach
kind of supplements:his design students just about anything about biology.
kind of supplements:Right. And this is about seven to ten years ago.
kind of supplements:And so they set out to start thinking about how to make it easier.
kind of supplements:And part of that, they realized that the tools and the platforms needed standards.
kind of supplements:It needed to become a lot easier to digest.
kind of supplements:Yeah, that's been a running theme in a lot of the conversations we've been having.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:designing through biology.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:What exactly does that mean?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:The way we feel about it is they're designers and designers when they're
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:thinking about it, and when we think about it is like, people using stuff.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:So designers make things that people use, and anything that they make when it
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:integrates biology, that's what we say is bio-design.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Okay.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:A large part of bio-design today is about using organisms, and more specifically,
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:probably, bacteria, using them as a useful tool to be of value to humans.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Previously, for example, cotton was grown in the fields.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Right now they are making bacteria that produces cotton in tanks, and that is in a
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:more sustainable fashion at a lower cost and better performance.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:That's more sustainable, growing the
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:cotton in the tank as opposed to in a field?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:A field, correct. Yeah.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:It's interesting because the through-line
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:through all of learning this week has been that with innovation, now everyone's
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:hacking, everyone's biohacking, saving time and energy...
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:A lot. Like what you're talking about is
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:bio-design, a hack to what is currently and properly available for production.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:It's interesting.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:I think that the big pull is from the sustainability aspect.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:It always starts as a hack. Yeah.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Because you're just prototyping, you're trying to figure stuff out.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Everyone sees that biodesign can have an
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:impact in terms of having us live a more sustainable life.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Yeah. But then we have to think about, well, how
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:about performance and how about cost? Because then we won't have adoption.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Your primary product is the B reactor,
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:which is the only portable network smart incubator system on the market. Can you
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:explain how it works and all that scientific jargon that I just said?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Yeah, I think the B reactor at its core is just really about helping people who don't
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:have access to biology infrastructure to grow bacteria at the desktop.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And that all goes back to, how do we make
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:it easier, faster, more simple to get into the field?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:A lot of the people that we're trying to serve are in a room just like this one.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Yeah.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And so we want to put an easy device on their table that they can grow bacteria,
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:start doing biology in an easier way and innovate.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Yeah. It's what makes it more accessible.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And so you guys offer tools in brewing, food and beverage, fashion and design.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:So this is a pretty wide range.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:I'm curious, what type of goods are you bio-designing that you're really into?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Right now? We actually have three categories,
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:biodegradation, biomineralization, and biosynthesis.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:So biodegradation basically...
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Explain
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:...That's about all this stuff that can be decomposted.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Biomineralization is about.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:there are bacteria that can create minerals.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:So instead of using, like, glue, you can use minerals to adhere to things together.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Biosynthesis is basically like creating dyes.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:It's a bacteria. It creates something that's useful, like a
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:dye, a pigment, and you can use that for some application of interest.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Could you reflect on the idea of bio-design as an interdisciplinary project
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:and how it changes your understanding of both biology and the arts?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:We love having artists within our community trying to use bacteria or other
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:organisms to make art and as a form of self-expression. It's all about the human
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:taking control over something to make something.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:It's funny because you're featured on the
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:same episode as a bodybuilder, because it's a biohacking episode.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And we're curious about this large spectrum of hacking and biohacking.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And we were just curious if you can speak to the spectrum of biohacking.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:When I think of hacking, I think of it as like, they're the rebels.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:They want to make stuff just because they can.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Yeah! And on that note, you want to expand
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:the accessibility of biofabrication to everyone, right?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:You want to be able to get to more of the good stuff, expanding people to be able to
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:be creative and apply that creativity in useful ways of value to humans.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Yeah.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And do so within a way of understanding what some of the restrictions are.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And a lot of that comes into not so much the tools, but the bacteria.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And that actually is really restricted by
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:the companies that sell or produce those bacteria.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:So can you talk about some dream products that you or you would love to see someone
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:else design or create? Like, what do you see in the future?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Yeah, in terms of some of the things that we dream about within the company are
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:consumer-based apparel that could have integrations of biology.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:So imagine your sneakers have bacteria that are either cooling you as you walk,
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:or being able to have sneakers that kind of biodegrade over time.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Some of the other things we dream about
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:are having electronics space products that we could throw in our backyard.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Like a cell phone, just like. Yeah, like a cell phone guy.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Yeah, exactly. So I'm kind of done with the lifecycle of
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:this thing, and I wanted to just throw it away.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Instead of throwing it in the garbage, you throw it in your backyard.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:I want to throw it in my backyard. I know.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Let's just biodegrade it all.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:It's so gorgeous as an idea.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Part of that is because there's a lot of people today that do throw away their
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:phones in the garbage, and it's actually not good.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:If we could get to a place where people could just throw it away, even if it's in
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:the garbage, then that's going to be healthier for us.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Yes.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:I feel like it's like eliminating people having to do the right thing.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:All right.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:We'll just make it easier to let you throw it out.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:So on your website, Ricky, you describe the urgent need to redesign and scale
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:everyday products with biology that are more sustainable and healthier for us and
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:our environment. Can you explain a little bit further the urgency of bio-design and
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:sustainability? Does this need to happen yesterday,
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:some of the ways we're interacting with our world and our environment?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:I think we're more on, like, a 10-20 year urgency that we really need to think about
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:in terms of the amount of plastic in the world, the greenhouse gas emissions.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:So all those things in terms of really about....petrochemicals, like the way that
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:we're including petrochemicals into products.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And it's not so much that we use plastic,
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:it's the fact that we continue to produce new plastic.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:So it's kind of like, one is about being
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:able to access the plastic that's already in the ground that we've thrown away, or
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:two, it's about creating products that we could just throw away that don't have any
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:plastic or don't have any petrochemicals, more than anything.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Do you notice a shift in quality when you use these materials?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:A lot of people have been able to innovate
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:materials that seem very promising, so they have the same properties to be able
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:to maintain the packaged items and the packaged goods.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:There are some companies that already have
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:been making leaps and bounds in terms of packaging.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:There's a company called Innovative Design that does mushroom-based packaging.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:It's really cool.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Instead of plastics for packaging, things like Dell computers and things like that.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Where do you see room for quicker
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:improvements from the everyday person side of their life, biohacking, their habits,
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:or from the big businesses and corporations that are packaging all these
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:things and shipping it daily and across the planet and things like that? Where is
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:the improvement to be made and where can it be done faster?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:On the consumer side, it's about the mental awareness, like being selective
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:about the sustainability, knowing and thinking conscientiously to look, to
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:double-check. What is the life cycle of this product going to be?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Yeah, I certainly don't ask that.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Sometimes I do, if I get a cell phone, how long will I have this?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:It's something like that?
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Maybe it's not obvious today, but maybe it'll be obvious in a year from now.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And just noticing, "I wonder where this is
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:actually going," or how is this being removed back into the world kind of thing.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:So I think from the consumer side, it's more about just mental awareness.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:On the corporation side, they could be
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:making bigger investments in terms of integrating new technologies, new
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:packaging materials, new materials in general, or new processes that are all
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:about thinking about their carbon footprint.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Yes, for real.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:It's kind of both of those coming together in the center, the consumer mental shift
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:and the investments from the corporations on carbon footprint.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And then the third piece is the governments making that slight push.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:We're going to find ourselves going in a better direction, I think.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:I love that. Yeah.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Wow. Thank you so much.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:We learned a lot. Yeah.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Thank you so much.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:It is about that time, Ang, reflection time.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Man. That was fun.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:And I really love the idea of just throwing things into my backyard.
And just to take a step back, bio-design:
Speaker:Me too. I can't wait.
I'm going to throw it all:throw my bed, throw my shoes [laughter].
I'm going to throw it all:Yeah! The work that he's doing is really interesting, too.
I'm going to throw it all:And trying to alleviate pressure on
I'm going to throw it all:consumers so we can just make decisions more streamlined, more clearly.
I'm going to throw it all:Yeah. I mean, what a cool way
I'm going to throw it all:to innovate with technology that is using our Earth to then
I'm going to throw it all:become, later, part of our Earth without the human being needing to honestly do all
I'm going to throw it all:of this life admin around every time you buy something.
I'm going to throw it all:Yeah.
I'm going to throw it all:People aren't doing it. There's a lot of work.
I'm going to throw it all:Yeah. You might cut that out.
I'm going to throw it all:Absolutely. We talked about recycling.
I'm going to throw it all:Right.
I'm going to throw it all:And there's a number numerical system, one to six.
I'm going to throw it all:And I don't even know if the city here, or
I'm going to throw it all:New York, or in other cities, handles all those numbers.
I'm going to throw it all:No, it doesn't. You really have to know it.
I'm going to throw it all:And so I appreciate the idea of having less pressure on us.
I'm going to throw it all:Okay, let's finish strong.
I'm going to throw it all:On this episode, we are bringing back our recurring segment today, Body of
I'm going to throw it all:Knowledge, with Chief Bioscientist at the Franklin Institute, Dr.
I'm going to throw it all:Jayatri Das.
I'm going to throw it all:In this segment, we are going to ask some questions and talk about the ideas about
I'm going to throw it all:biohacking, in kind of an open-forum style.
I'm going to throw it all:Then we are going to take to the Internet
I'm going to throw it all:and see what people on Google are searching for.
I'm going to throw it all:Welcome, Jayatri.
I'm going to throw it all:On this episode, we're going to be talking about biohacking.
I'm going to throw it all:And I would love to just get some brief reflections from you.
I'm going to throw it all:So I think what's really interesting about biohacking is that there are different
I'm going to throw it all:ways that we think about what that word means.
I'm going to throw it all:And we've heard
I'm going to throw it all:two very different examples of how people think about biohacking.
I'm going to throw it all:So if I were to try and find, what is that common theme?
I'm going to throw it all:It's this idea that we can look at the tools that nature has made
I'm going to throw it all:for ourselves, for the way that our bodies work, for the way that living things in
I'm going to throw it all:nature work, and think about how we use those tools for different purposes. Right.
I'm going to throw it all:So we think about manufacturing other things, like fabric,
I'm going to throw it all:or art, and things like that using biological tools.
I'm going to throw it all:But we can also think about, okay, how can
I'm going to throw it all:we optimize these biological tools to make ourselves better?
I'm going to throw it all:Right. When I hear biohacking, the word "hacking"
I'm going to throw it all:jumps off to me, and I guess that suggests that something is not going the way you
I'm going to throw it all:want it to go or something's going awry and you're trying to fix it.
I'm going to throw it all:But I never think about my body in any way
I'm going to throw it all:where it's like, oh, this isn't going right...
I'm going to throw it all:Unless I get out of bed and my shoulder's
I'm going to throw it all:cracking or something like that, I'm like, "what's going on with that?"
I'm going to throw it all:Yeah. I generally like the way I'm functioning.
I'm going to throw it all:That's good. That's a blessing.
I'm going to throw it all:I think the hacking, too, is very much like, how do I make a shortcut?
I'm going to throw it all:How do I get an advancement?
I'm going to throw it all:How do I... you know, life hacks are often
I'm going to throw it all:just things that are very simple ideas, like a shortcut, a way to skip over
I'm going to throw it all:something that might be taking too much time or effort.
I'm going to throw it all:Yeah. No, I think both of those are really good
I'm going to throw it all:perceptions of how we think about this idea of hacking.
I'm going to throw it all:And when we apply it to biology,
I'm going to throw it all:it's this idea that we don't have to just sit back and watch anymore.
I'm going to throw it all:Right.
I'm going to throw it all:We now understand how biology works in such a way that we
I'm going to throw it all:can use it for shortcuts or we can use it to think about how do we not just
I'm going to throw it all:stay comfortable with who we are and have to accept that, but actually be proactive
I'm going to throw it all:about building yourself into something else that you might want to be.
I'm going to throw it all:Right! I love the idea of bodybuilding
I'm going to throw it all:because I've always been a little skinny kid, especially growing up.
I'm going to throw it all:And so the idea of taking supplements and
I'm going to throw it all:meal prepping and having a bunch of chicken and protein and these things kind
I'm going to throw it all:of, I guess, concentrating your effort to build a bigger shoulder, a bigger calf
I'm going to throw it all:muscle or something like that, I haven't been able to master that too well.
I'm going to throw it all:But I like the idea of it. But I don't know.
I'm going to throw it all:That doesn't strike me as biohacking.
I'm going to throw it all:It's like, well, you're just dieting and eating.
I'm going to throw it all:Right. But am I wrong in assuming that?
I'm going to throw it all:No.
I'm going to throw it all:I mean, you can think of biohacking as kind of on this spectrum.
I'm going to throw it all:Right?
I'm going to throw it all:Like if you're looking at meditation, I know that Angelica you're into meditation.
I'm going to throw it all:That can be sort of a very low-level type of biohacking.
I'm going to throw it all:I know that this is how my brain works,
I'm going to throw it all:and I'm going to repurpose that to accomplish a certain goal.
I'm going to throw it all:So that's a very simple level.
I'm going to throw it all:You could be a biohacker, right? Yeah.
I'm going to throw it all:In a way, it does feel that way.
I'm going to throw it all:It's like a magic trick sometimes because you can catch the loop.
I'm going to throw it all:As long as you can find that space in
I'm going to throw it all:between the two thoughts, you kind of take your power back, you know what I'm saying?
I'm going to throw it all:Right. In that very cyclical moment.
I'm going to throw it all:So it is like a hack.
I'm going to throw it all:I was going to say, have you found that, like studying or when you're meditating?
I'm going to throw it all:People say when you're physically writing something or physically touching a book,
I'm going to throw it all:it kind of sits in your brain a little longer. Is that biohacking? Is studying
I'm going to throw it all:for a final a biohack that students are doing across the country?
I'm going to throw it all:I think where my mind goes is that
I'm going to throw it all:biohacking is kind of working outside the system a little bit.
I'm going to throw it all:Right. All hacking has that.
I'm going to throw it all:Yes. Snowden, Edward Snowden.
I'm going to throw it all:They're the anarchists of the science world, these hackers.
I'm going to throw it all:I love that. I'm always attracted to the hackers
I'm going to throw it all:because I'm like, "what's really going on, man?"
I'm going to throw it all:Love it, love it. Right.
I'm going to throw it all:I'm not necessarily advocating that breaking laws or anything in there,
I'm going to throw it all:because in some cases, the laws haven't even caught up to what's possible.
I'm going to throw it all:That's a whole different conversation.
I'm going to throw it all:But there's a little bit of trying to break the rules.
I'm going to throw it all:Whether it's because you want to improve your health, whether
I'm going to throw it all:you want to control your body, whether you want to sort of fend off aging.
I'm going to throw it all:Like, these are different reasons.
I'm going to throw it all:If you're thinking about body hacking in particular,
I'm going to throw it all:these are all different reasons why people think about doing that.
I'm going to throw it all:So it's a little bit of just trying to think outside the box.
I'm going to throw it all:Totally. Right. Is cancer research
I'm going to throw it all:somewhere in that spectrum of biohacking, trying to get around these
I'm going to throw it all:cells that multiply and ultimately , unfortunately, kill a lot of people?
I'm going to throw it all:That's a question that I think starts to
I'm going to throw it all:get at the nuance here, because the way that most cancer research is done
I'm going to throw it all:is kind of within the confines of an established system of research.
I'm going to throw it all:Right. Because there are so many safeguards to
I'm going to throw it all:protect people's health and things like that.
I'm going to throw it all:But I think the mindset of a scientist is a little bit of a hacker mindset.
I'm going to throw it all:Right. For sure.
I'm going to throw it all:One of the biggest breakthroughs in cancer
I'm going to throw it all:research that has come about in the last decade or so is this idea of hacking your
I'm going to throw it all:body's own immune system to fight cancer cells.
I'm going to throw it all:Right. So I think that's kind of like a hacker
I'm going to throw it all:mindset within sort of like the established structure of medical research.
I'm going to throw it all:Okay. So we, of course, hit up the Internet.
I'm going to throw it all:We ask the Google. Amazing.
I'm going to throw it all:Let's move into the second half of this segment, Body of Knowledge Autofill.
I'm going to throw it all:We typed in our keyword "biohacking," and
I'm going to throw it all:Google gave us the most searched questions that people have been asking, in the
I'm going to throw it all:privacy of their own homes, online when they think no one can read it.
I'm going to throw it all:So let's read off some of the most popular
I'm going to throw it all:questions people are asking Google about biohacking.
I'm going to throw it all:The first one is, "is biohacking ethical?" That's a good one.
I'm going to throw it all:Yeah.
I'm going to throw it all:That's such a fuzzy line to draw, right? Yeah.
I'm going to throw it all:I mean, it's a little nail on the head. Okay.
I'm going to throw it all:It's not a very nuanced question.
I'm going to throw it all:It's very like, "so is it ethical or what?" People want to know.
I'm going to throw it all:That's going to be the first one because
I'm going to throw it all:people are like, all right, is this right or wrong?
I'm going to throw it all:I think that's kind of the gut instinct people get when they hear about it.
I'm going to throw it all:They want to make it human, sort of.
I'm going to throw it all:I think some people kind of make that
I'm going to throw it all:decision themselves, too, when they first hear it.
I'm going to throw it all:"We can make you smarter tomorrow if you
I'm going to throw it all:inject yourself" and say, "well, I don't know if I want to do that."
I'm going to throw it all:Mm-hmm.
I'm going to throw it all:But if somebody makes their own decision to put a computer chip in their finger or
I'm going to throw it all:something, sure, whatever, i t's your own body.
I'm going to throw it all:I think where the ethical questions around
I'm going to throw it all:biohacking start to get more nebulous is now that we can actually change genes.
I'm going to throw it all:That...Okay...
I'm going to throw it all:What does that mean about making your own decisions?
I'm going to throw it all:Like, who makes those decisions for you?
I'm going to throw it all:What if you change the genes that aren't
I'm going to throw it all:just in your own body, but are the genes that you pass along to your children?
I'm going to throw it all:Right. Wow.
I'm going to throw it all:Do they have a choice? Yeah.
I'm going to throw it all:It's so true.
I'm going to throw it all:I think if you stay kind of at the shallow
I'm going to throw it all:level, that life hacks kind of thing that it's like, okay, we're okay with this, but
I'm going to throw it all:with new technology that is changing what it means about what's possible. The
I'm going to throw it all:ethical questions get a lot thornier, right?
I'm going to throw it all:Yeah.
I'm going to throw it all:This next one sounds so funny to me, and I just want to see your reactions to this.
I'm going to throw it all:"Biohacking is not a crime."
I'm going to throw it all:I feel like this with someone being like,
I'm going to throw it all:"biohacking is not a crime...right? I'm not wrong, right? Am I guilty? Am I going to jail?"
I'm going to throw it all:Right.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:"it's not a crime, right?
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:It's a guilty question.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:It is really kind of fascinating, the experiments that people do on themselves.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Oh, go on.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:There's like, the people who literally
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:think that, oh, I want to be able to open a card swipe door with my hand.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:And so I'm just going to put that RFID chip under my skin.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:And then there are the bodybuilders who learn about gene editing and think that
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:"everybody does it...it's j ust like the vitamin supplements.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:What I'm going to do is actually try and change my own genes to build my own
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:muscle." And maybe that's not such a great idea.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Yeah. You know what else it makes me think of?
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Like designer dogs, when people curate a dog that they want.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Yeah. I mean, I know we're talking about humans,
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:but also even just in pets, it happens, like creating the pets, hypoallergenic
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:, certain kind of face, certain kind of color, everything.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:I don't want to trail off too much, but I thought I saw a headline maybe a couple of
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:months ago about trying to bring back the Woolly Mammoth?
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Oh, yeah.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:And I'm like, is this an Onion article or is this real?
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:I think that is absolutely 100% real.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:People are interested in doing that and taking steps towards that.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:It is. And that's where these are questions that
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:of like, "wait, what should science be doing?" Right?
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Because the people who want to bring back
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:the woolly mammoth suggest that by bringing back the woolly
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:mammoth, we can tackle environmental degradation and things like that.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:But aren't there 50 other things that we
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:should be doing before we go to biohacking?
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:That's exactly what I gut went to.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:I was like, we still have hungry kids in the US.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:So hold up.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Before you bring back the Woolly Mammoth...
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Can you make a comedy sketch out of that, "Before you bring back the woolly mammoth..." I love that.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Things to do before bringing back the
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Woolly mammoth. We've got things on the agenda.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:I love that.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:The next one here is "biohacking is amazing."
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:It's such a subjective thing...
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:If you don't think biohacking absolutely can be amazing.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Yeah.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:But then there's something like, "wait, what?"
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Yeah. I mean, it is caused for amazement, right?
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:I think "amazing" denotes positive feelings in all of us, generally speaking.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:I think one of my favorite examples of biohacking, like
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:an artist who, used under the principle of biohacking, made cheese from celebrities.
Yeah. They typed it out slowly:
Speaker:Wait, what does that mean? Oh, my God.
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Speaker:By collecting bacteria from famous people
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Speaker:from their armpits and toes and belly buttons and using that to make cheese.
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Speaker:Wow.
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Speaker:So that's a different way to think about it.
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Speaker:Wow. I'm wrapping my mind around that.
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Speaker:And did people buy it? It was art.
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Speaker:Oh, it was.
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Speaker:That's another hilarious term, art.
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Speaker:We won't go there.
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Speaker:I didn't mean to come across as being judgmental of art as a scientist.
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Speaker:No, it's hilarious to call it art, I'm
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Speaker:saying the bacteria cheese from a celebrity.
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Speaker:Wow. Yeah.
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Speaker:That's still washing over me. Me too.
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Speaker:I can't even have a response to that right now, like that's just...
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Speaker:I'm sure it was a commentary of sorts.
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Speaker:And I'd love to read the artist statement, which is always a little more intense
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Speaker:than, it can be more interesting than the work itself.
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Speaker:But if you think about biohacking as a way
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Speaker:to use biology outside the confines of the system, there you go.
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Speaker:Within that context, I am amazed.
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Speaker:That's absolutely amazing.
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Speaker:So, "biohacking for weight loss." Interesting.
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Speaker:I mean, intermittent fasting.
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Speaker:I see that often as one of the classic hacks.
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Speaker:Yeah.
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Speaker:I'm actually not up to speed on what the evidence for that is.
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Speaker:But I know a lot of people do it.
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Speaker:And the last one, you want to go for it? Sure.
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Speaker:"Biohacking for longevity."
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Speaker:Oh, this is an interesting one. Okay.
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Speaker:Because one
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Speaker:mindset that is common among many biohackers is this idea that, "why be
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Speaker:constrained by the human body?" Like, "what is death?" Right?
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Speaker:Right. Let's just get rid of it.
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Speaker:Why do we need to die?
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Speaker:Let's just change our bodies so we keep living.
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Speaker:So you see things like people injecting,
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Speaker:like doing blood transfusions from young people as a way to try and fend off aging.
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Speaker:Wow.
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Speaker:I did not know that.
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Speaker:Is that some, like, upper-echelon, need to have a lot of..? It sounds expensive.
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Speaker:Probably.
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Speaker:Like getting a blood transfusion for cosmetic reasons.
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Speaker:Right.
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Speaker:That sounds very bougie to me. Yeah.
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Speaker:You probably can't go to CVS for that.
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Speaker:People are waiting for those for really intense reasons.
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Speaker:And then I guess there's people that are like, I'd love to look a little younger.
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Speaker:Let's give it a go. Yeah.
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Speaker:I mean, all these questions are so interesting because it denotes some kind
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Speaker:of concern or worry about life as we understand it.
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Speaker:"I don't like that part of life and I don't want this function of it." And I'm
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Speaker:hearing some of these examples is just blowing my mind.
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Speaker:I'm just...
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Speaker:Mind-blowing.
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Speaker:Thanks so much, Jayatri.
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Speaker:And thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of So Curious!
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Speaker:This podcast is part of The Franklin Institute.
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Speaker:The Franklin Institute is a science museum located in Philadelphia.
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Speaker:The Franklin Institute's mission is to
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Speaker:inspire a passion for learning about science and technology.
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Speaker:For more information on everything about the Franklin Institute, visit fi.edu.
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Speaker:This podcast is produced by Radio Kismet.
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Speaker:Radio Kismet is Philadelphia's premier
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Speaker:podcast network for businesses looking to develop their own branded podcast content.
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Speaker:Check them out at radiokismet.com.
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Speaker:There are a lot of people who make this podcast happen.
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Speaker:Thanks to the producers, Joy Montefusco and Jayatr Das.
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Speaker:Our managing producer, Emily Charish.
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Speaker:Our operations head, Christopher Plant.
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Speaker:Our associate producer, Liliana Green.
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Speaker:Our audio team, Christian Cedarlund,
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Speaker:Goldie Bingley, Lauren DeLuca and Brad Florent.
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Speaker:Our development producer, Opeola Bukola.
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Speaker:Our science writer, Kira Villette and our graphic designer, Emma Sager.
